In this episode Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss one of the most common questions they get about getting started with fasting. The question involves the fear of getting started, facing conflicting messages from outside sources, and worrying about doing "metabolic damage." They discuss the methods they have found to be helpful for people to put these concerns aside while starting to fast so they can soon judge for themselves and draw conclusions from how they feel and the results they see.
Fasting For Life Ep. 44
[00:00:01] Hello, I'm Dr. Scott Watier, and I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast, and this podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve. [00:00:15] Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design. [00:00:25] We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned along the way. [00:00:40] Hey, everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott Watier. I am here, as always, with my good friend and colleague, Tommy Welling. [00:00:47] Good afternoon to you, sir. [00:00:49] Hey, Scott, how are you also, I cannot wait for the conversation today, it feels like it's been a fortnight since we've recorded an episode and it's only been a week. I'm not sure, not sure what's happening. But I'm in the I'm in the vortex of fasting this last seven days, apparently. [00:01:07] Yeah. But it's only been half a fortnight, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry for using the ancient term fortnight for our younger listeners. That means 14 days that I like. Correct on that. So today, conversationally coming out of the ten day challenge that we did October one to October 10, which was fantastic. We have another one coming up at the beginning of December. Stay tuned. [00:01:34] I'm just I don't want to go down the path of talking about all the results and whatnot, but 12, 14, 15 pounds lost in 10 days. Energy levels boosted, sleep improved after the first couple of days. For some, your body adaptation period pain. Oh, I forgot about that one. [00:01:50] Those pain and inflammation is multiple people. We were going through the the survey results and just several people coming off of pain medications that they've been on for a long time and reduced inflammation, bloating, swelling, all that kind of stuff, like, like major stuff, things where people weren't able to get their their rings and their jewelry on. And then now they're they're fitting. [00:02:12] I mean, just in a matter of ten days, I had forgotten about the pain medicine, like literally in ten days off of a pain medication that someone had been on for years. So and with my most recent biceps injury, I, I had some some pain meds that they gave me post surgery. And I took one at night in the evening, one day when it was just really excruciating. And it was an experience like I was not myself, I didn't feel right. I was nauseous like. So I can't imagine that's something that people have to know in clinical practice with patients that are dealing with chronic pain issues. That's a real thing like being on those consistently even low levels. Like it's it's not something that is I would put in the category of a great quality of life, you know, so I just didn't expect to see that one from a ten day. You know, we hear that with with the twenty eighteen clients and the twenty eight days one are people that have been fasting for a while, but just incredible stuff. So as we come out of the challenge and I said we weren't going to go down that little rabbit hole, but we still kind of did. But coming out of the challenge, we like to look back and say, OK, what are the what are the things that we've learned? What's the feedback that we've gotten and what are the things that we can continue to like, share and talk about? And one of the threads that we've noticed recently is there's this and tell me I want you to speak to it, too, because the way you talk about your own story is powerful. [00:03:39] And I know you and I know your story and the conversation we just had. I'm like, OK, I'm turning the mic on. [00:03:44] Like, we need to talk about that because it relates to X, Y and Z with the feedback that we've been getting is there's like these small little moments in time where it becomes down to like a change or a decision or an experience or a fear or a conversation or a recent interaction with a coach or a doctor or a family member or Facebook group, or there's just like this little hiccup that takes place. And then our brain goes into worst case scenario mode. Right. Like ninety five percent of our thoughts from yesterday are the same ones we have today. And 80 to 90 percent of those are negative. And negativity has a 70 times more effect on us than positivity. So our body is like inherently wired to be in this survival. Right. Got to make it to the next day mode so we won't go down the whole, you know, mindset path today. But really, just talking about a situation that someone had sent us a message about a few weeks back. And Laurie, I'll give you a direct shout out apologies for the delay, but we've really been trying to frame your constructive question because it's so common, especially like coming out of the challenge that we just did. And for her, it was I want to make sure I unpack this right time myself. I don't like make sure you fill in the gaps because the Doctor Fong is is one of the originators of the fasting methods. And he's who you and I went to, to art to to dip our foot in in the fasting pool and be like, wait a minute, does this make sense? Is this something I could do? Yeah, well, this work for me. Right? [00:05:34] So is the science legitimate? Yeah. Is there something out there. Right. Yeah. [00:05:38] Is there something so a lot of people see him. We reference him a lot. We're in process of trying to distill down and disseminate and encourage and put together. Programs are going to take. The concept of fasting to a whole new level and for her for you, Laurie, it was your question about how people in the fasting page will say that one meal a day will slow down your metabolism and it doesn't. This is the part that I don't follow, is it doesn't work for weight loss. And so Lori started doing this fifth day, blood sugars coming down each day, not really concerned about the weight. More about the underlying issue that we talk about a lot of time, which is the insulin resistance, which is like breaking down the first barrier of how we're wired with the weight loss world and dieting world that we all grew up in and that the media portrays to us and our doctors talk about. And a lot of providers don't have any nutritional training through med school, then you have your alternative and you've got your fitness professionals and you've got a nutritionist and your dieticians and all this information. So she she you know, the BMI is a problem. She's doing it for health. Not too concerned about the weight signs up for a diet coach, which is. A couple thousand dollars worth of coaching and the diet coach also doesn't believe in fasting or a higher fat, lower carb diet, which there's tons of research on. [00:07:02] Right. And doesn't really have any experience with managing Type two diabetics, which I'm guessing this is a concern for Laurie based on her construct of her question. I'm going to land the plane here. And her question was, if I'm really hungry, do you think I should mix it up with a day of two meals a day? So more of like an intermittent fasting window in my initial reaction to this was they've already gotten you off your path, that you felt confident and that was going to allow you to take back control of your health, which was one meal a day just by going on a Facebook page, having a couple of people saying that's, oh, my God, doesn't work for weight loss. Well, how did I lose 50 pounds? How do you lose whatever you're at now close to there around? How have you kept it off for years? The research shows that there's a short term metabolism boost. We're trying to undo insulin resistance, which is the cause of so many other comorbidities and health problems. So like already and then the coach who is I know what you're doing is wrong. Like already you've been thrown off because you don't have. Yeah, you're just already off track because of outside influences, and I want the way you spoke about your own experience, like just kind of wrapped it all up into this perfect little bowl of like, well, wait a minute, why are we doing this and when? [00:08:22] Yeah. And your question is it hit me because it felt like exactly what I was thinking and feeling right before I took my first step into fasting where where I was so kind of ingrained in all of the the other messages like the calories in, calories out, the slowing down the metabolism. I need to eat more times a day, not less, because I need to keep revving up my metabolism. I need to keep adding fuel to the fire. I mean, that that's that's a message that we continually hear. And so it feels like the same framework that I was thinking about. And I had those exact same questions. And I thought my first question honestly was, was if if the coach doesn't believe in fasting or ketogenic diet and higher fat, what what do they believe then? Like what is the recommendation going to be at this point? If not? If not, what's been proven to decrease body fat, increase metabolism and overall health metrics? Right. [00:09:31] And I just she Laurie, you parked your car in the wrong parking lot like this comes up with doctor's conversations, too. And I'll talk about a situation with a client that we have and we've talked about in the past and no disrespect to the diet coach we're talking about or the doctor I mean, heck, Dr. Fung, who's pioneered a lot of the conversation around this or the doctor that you have. You know, I know when I'm told that I'm doing something wrong or I might be thinking about something incorrectly, my first reaction is to get defensive and be like, well, no, that's not right. You're right. That's just human nature. So no disrespect to any of the situations. But if you're wanting to adopt this lifestyle, that's your choice. So you've gone into it. You don't have the right people in your corner. Right. So never mind. Like you said, Tommy, me, what's the recommendation going to be? Well, is it going to be similar to what you've done in the past that hasn't worked, which is the low and slow, the eat less move more type mentality, if that's it seems like it's going to have to be right because. Yeah. What is the other option like are you going to do macros, are you going to do that. And again, that works. My wife is a perfect example that she works really well on a on more of a bodybuilding kind of template type, macro based cycle. But I mean out of our group of friends and family, she's the only one out of the group of five hundred patient visits a week that I used to have in clinical practice, like there might have been a handful of people that that's going to work for me and everyone else is going to fall in the camp that you were talking about. [00:11:03] Yeah, which is which is that we're we're knocking at the door and we're looking at fasting. We're looking at changing the lifestyle and kind of going against the grain a little bit with with what people are normally talking about and what they've tried. I mean, there's a reason why I probably tried to lose the same pounds eighteen years or so and they wouldn't come off. And I had never I had never honestly tried just skipping a meal or two to get the weight off. I just had to. [00:11:31] You must not have been doing it right. You weren't counting your calories, right? You weren't factory. You weren't you weren't doing it right. [00:11:38] Right. And, you know, I definitely heard that. But years and years of my fitness pal and lose it. And, you know, I could I could show you reams of Excel sheets and data. Please don't. Yeah. [00:11:49] That that shows the numbers, you know, and but the scale didn't lie. It just it just wouldn't it would just wouldn't keep going down. You would it would move a little bit here and there and and while I was younger, it definitely moved faster. But at a certain point it just stopped. And then that's why I was finally able and willing to listen to an alternative approach that that frankly sounded a little crazy, you know, when I first started to think about it. And that's why, you know, I had to start with the science, the obesity code and and understanding where it came from and why it could possibly. [00:12:26] Be correct when when everything else I had heard what wasn't working and there's so much stuff out there, too, like artificial sweeteners, good or bad or what is the science or what's the interpretation? Who funded the study like? I don't want to have that conversation. I want to go back to the construct of Laurie was pushed off her path due to people that didn't have the similar belief systems or similar knowledge or desire to try to obtain results that she wanted to obtain them. Right. So my thought here is I was trying to think of an analogy to use, but it's almost like sitting down, calling him a financial adviser and being like, hey, I need help managing my million dollar retirement portfolio. And they go, OK, great, send me the bank account information. You go, well, well, no. I actually just started my first job. I'm two weeks out of college and I just signed up for an apartment. But I need to get a cosigner because I don't have any financial history. So it's like when we talk about these these hurdles going into it, like a about my metabolism. Oh, I'm worried about, you know, my lean body mass, like, OK. So before we worry about, you know, those small little things, let's see if this lifestyle and this adaptation of fasting is going to work for you. If you were in it, if you were using Omayyad or even Ahdaf, which is alternate day fasting, which is a great, in our opinion, the second best way to get the weight off. [00:13:55] Quickly, in your fat loss mode, we are not talking about building lean muscle while addressing a weight loss goal. Now you can do that. Eat less, move more low and slow. Sure. But we want to focus on fat loss. We want to focus on reversing diabetes. You want to focus on reversing insulins like it, preventing it. Let's get the weight off first. So, you know, the speed bump of I'm worried about my metabolism, like, OK, yes, your metabolism isn't going to die. Right. It changes on a day to day basis. Now, are can you see trends over time for sure? Are there complicating factors? Yes, but let's get you to a point of confidence where you can get the scale moving. You feel good. You're going to have the additional benefits of fasting. It's going to simplify. You're going to have less cravings. You're going to sleep better. Your energy is going to be better. So you need to have the right people in your corner and also realize that we can't manage the million dollar fund until we have the million dollars. So let's go through the process first and then see where it takes. Yeah, yeah. [00:14:59] I think another analogy, if I may, would be we're here in the Houston area. So if we if a hurricane came through and blew off part of my house, I'm not going to spend the next weekend worrying about my gardening. [00:15:13] You know, I'm going to I have to take care of the catastrophic damage that's that's taking place. Right. I didn't know you were into gardening. I just learned something. This is pretty cool. Can you give me some peppers, please? Because they're really organic peppers are really expensive. Yeah. [00:15:27] They're a little tough to grow as well, but yeah, I'm working on it. So we do have a gardening box. And if if the part of my house gets gets knocked out, I'm going to worry about that first. Like, like look at the the the major important things before worrying about those, the smaller details. So when we talk about a potential slowdown in metabolism, well, by the time you lose 20 or 30 or 50 or 100 pounds, your your whole body is not going to need as many calories. You can go do calorie calculators. There's plenty of good ones online and you can go put some hypothetical numbers in there. You're going to need some less calories to support a smaller frame with with smaller amounts of of fat and therefore smaller amounts of supporting muscles, supporting bone tissue. So that that's going to make sense. So, you know, just from a strictly numbers perspective, it could be argued that that that in itself is a little bit of a metabolic slowdown, quote unquote. But to get back to your original point, when you're kind of knocking at the door of making a new decision here, let's let's focus on what got you to this point, what made you consider a new option and what's brought your frustration level to this point where where you're looking for a way outlawry, you're looking for a new method and not to be discouraged by something where we're looking so far ahead before you've even solved the primary issue at hand here. [00:16:56] Yeah, and that's that's a good point. So and it's not to be discouraging to the situation. These things are real. You and I had them like, you know, go back and listen to the first few episodes. I mean, I could list out all of the metabolic and blood work and testing and panels and tracking, like you said that we did. And it came down to, you know, I never ran an insulin test. I never ran a fast it insulin. I'd love to do an insulin insulin tolerance test with pro insulin numbers, but we don't have that. [00:17:26] You know, like they have blood sugar monitors, they even have Kitto monitors that I knew of back then, I'd like to know if you were actually in a fat burning stay in your body had depleted some of its short term glycogen stores. So these concerns are real, especially if you're going into a situation where you have a coach or a doctor who is not supporting you. And a similar situation just came up with a client that we had where blood pressure numbers and this feeling of just being uneasy like not like not ill, but like just weak and tired kept coming up. [00:17:58] So looking at the blood pressure numbers, the numbers had dropped dramatically where the pulse was really low. The bottom number, the diastolic number was really low. And come to find out just by they had done a simple Google search of what causes low diastolic and low pulse numbers. And it was beta blockers. So things like metoprolol and certain medications and diuretics. Right. So this person is is now in the pre diabetic state, no longer diabetic, lost forty five pounds off all insulin, off six medications as of this conversation last week. Right. So I said, OK, they reached out and said, what do we do? And I said, OK, well, are like, is this an emergency issue though? Like, no, no, no. I just I just don't feel great. I was going to do some salt and water. It's the simplest way to bring up blood pressure. And I said, what are your most recent numbers? And I said, tomorrow morning, call your doc and have a conversation. Tell them how you're feeling and what's happened before. The doctor didn't have a consult, didn't bring them into the office, didn't run bloodwork and said, oh, yeah, stop taking them all in the two diuretics. So now this person is no longer on off six medications. [00:19:08] They're off nine. Wow. But let's bring it back to this conversation with Laurie now. If you had stopped and never pushed the envelope, right, this wasn't a medical emergency. It was a chemical toxicity issue like you needed to stop stopping the body from regulating itself. You were you were overegg you down regulating. Is that even a thing? You know, I'm trying to say you were you were over regulating the down regulation like it was time to pull off those those support strips to be like, OK, let the body. And now a week later, weight's coming down again. Blood sugar numbers are still improving. So my point in bringing that up is find people that are willing to be in your corner to support you. This is one of our motivating factors for me. What of these for me and I'm pretty sure you're on board with this. I didn't know about the garden, though, so maybe I'm going to surprise you. Here is the reason why we want to build this thing and come up with these programs and have coaching and bring doctors on board is because it works and it's like, OK, where else are people going to go for answers or support? Like, it's not out there, like we haven't seen it, especially even on one of the gurus, fasting gurus like Facebook pages. You're being told that Walmart doesn't work. Well, it does. It mean it works. So let's get you some short term results. Let's track. So anybody that's listening, if you are going to make a change, make a change, stick with it for a couple of weeks and look at your averages. Don't weigh every day. Don't test your blood. Don't do the metrics you've been tracking every day or if you do them every day, averaged them out over those two weeks and see if you have a down downward trend or an upward trend and then make a decision. OK, did the change I make actually give it enough time? Do I have the right support? Am I using the right technique? Because there's so many different variables. But you just got to start. [00:21:00] You do, and I feel like that's the hardest part, especially when those questions come up and the fear and things like that. So, you know, just just be encouraged that we all had that. I mean, that that's frankly why we started the podcast, was because it was just so much question and concern and fear. Right then just to get started. And once we once we kind of went through the rabbit hole, I went through the door. We realized that there's just so much keeping people from being able to even try this. We we have to. We have to. You know, bring some of that message to to everybody to try. [00:21:38] Yeah, I mean, and it's it's this isn't rocket science either, you know, like. When that day you said to me, stop eating, I was like, what do you mean stop eating? Like, OK, what else? You're like, Well, here's a book you can read. I'm like, OK, great. I read it. Now what? OK, well, go read this one. Go back and read that one again. And I was like, I got it. It clicked. So we want to create that environment where, you know, there's support for these types of situations. And if we just listed out the top ten things we hear of why people are concerned about fasting, it's it's like the what's that show? Steve Harvey Family Feud. Family Feud. And I said, fasting for you like it's just on my brain 24/7. Family feud like that. We surveyed one hundred people and the top eight answers are, ah, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. It's the same thing. There's underlying fear. There's a lack of support and there's confusion of the messages that you've been taught or you're looking at. [00:22:39] And one of the things that we want to continue to, and I'll say the word preach is simplicity. So simplify. What's the easiest way to simplify and put yourself in a deficit, have lean body mass, be retained, have short term boost and metabolism, have increases in growth hormone which retain that lean body mass to help balance your hormones, to help reverse the insulin resistance? Well, the easiest way, in our opinion, is one meal a day compared to ADF. It's great by ADF requires a little bit more willpower and tracking and diligence because you have a whole day to undo the day before. We're all mad. It's consistent. It's simple. [00:23:23] Track your numbers. If your numbers are going in the right direction, then you're doing something right and just try to remove the rest of that noise because first two rules of fasting. Don't talk about fasting and don't talk about fasting because you're going to get a lot of the pushback that we hear in that top eight or top ten list of concerns is really like we don't it's very rare. We get one outside of that list, right? [00:23:45] Yeah. And most of them come in the first two or three on that list, not the bottom seven or eight. And and it starts with with just getting started and that little bit of fear. So so you know, Laurie and everyone who's who can hear this just get started, take the first step and commit to doing it for, for a week or two. It doesn't have to be a long stretch of time. But but judge the situation and, you know, judge for yourself based on on the results that you get in that time and pay attention to how you feel. You know, the first time you skip a meal a few hours later. Yeah, you might feel hungry. And we talk about that. Go back, listen to some of the the old episodes. But within a few days, take a look at the scale, see how you feel you're you're probably going to feel a lot better than than you thought you did. And you'll probably have your answer right there. [00:24:37] Yeah. And we want to continue to push the envelope, too, and come up with, you know, more resources and more content and more support and more accountability. And where I mean, that's what I said. It feels like we haven't recorded in a while, but we've been in the fasting funnel and it's been fun. There's a lot of fasting, creativity and planning and how we're going to reach more people and impact more people. And how do we track that and where are we going to do next? Are we going to do another challenge? We weren't even going to do a second challenge this year, but twenty twenty has been such a heck of a roller coaster ride, we're like, no, no, no, let's go. OK, we're going to do two in the fall because we're going to take two sets of people through a process that's going to help them regain control and just realize and know and empower them that it can be done. So I like your previous message. You like talking to Laurie and everybody else that's having these types of thoughts and feelings. You know, you were speaking to Tommy two years ago and me eighteen months ago, or I don't know how long it's been. It might be two and a half years and two years now, but it's it's just. To land the plane and come out with an actionable thing from this is I want to encourage you to get people in your corner that supportive. I want to encourage you to stay away from the ones that aren't if you're in a situation where you've hired someone to help you with your health and they're not providing that answer for you, albeit a doctor, coach, trainer, like if you hired a trainer and they're like, yeah, we're going to hit these metrics in 90 days. [00:26:03] Right. And then six months in, you're going six weeks and you're going in the opposite direction. You're probably not going to keep paying the trainer, right? You have a mechanic is I get we're going to replace the brakes and only replaces three out of the four. And next thing you know, your tire blows and you're on the side of the road. Like, wait a minute, what the heck? Like, what are they paying for? So encouragement is get just block out the noise, know that what you're doing is safe and effective. And try not to let those little hiccups and little bits of like little pieces of fear or preprogramming to kind of get in the way and like you said, Tommy, just give it a couple of weeks and see what happens. So if you are new to the podcast, Fasting for Life Dotcom, the fasting for Life Dotcom, we have a fast start guide with many master classes. A quick little 20 minute video tutorial of the Fast Start Guide, which is downloadable PDF, gives you some insight onto how to put Mohmad or one meal a day into your day to day and tell me any last things we want to mention in terms of really kind of something that people can do as an actionable step if they have been fasting. And they're kind of in the case of Lori and I know we're being repetitive here, but it's it's just the top 10 list is the top 10 list and it doesn't go away. So I want to make sure that we that we really hammer at home, especially in an encouraging way that you got this and you can do it. [00:27:31] Yeah, absolutely. And if you've been doing Mohmad like you've already gotten started with the Fast Archaia in the mini master class and you find yourself stuck or at a plateau, the most common thing we find is that try backing off the processed carbohydrates a little bit and make sure you're eating window is is small enough so that you can maintain that deficit, because when when one meal becomes two or three hours of grazing, it's really easy to kind of to intake enough for maintenance at that point and kind of undo previous day's worth of worth of deficits and kind of slow down the results on the scale. So tighten it up. [00:28:10] You must not have like the garden comment because you just totally, like, nailed me to the wall here, because that is like my. How did you know that? [00:28:18] Probably because we talk about everything faster than twenty four 24/7, probably one day, you know, a couple of dips here and there and that's two hundred calories. Three hundred four calories that it's pretty easy, especially when it's snack type stuff and even and especially when it's close to your eating window, it can feel like well no, it's still kind of one meal. Right. It's just a more of an extended meal. But tighten those up because, you know, the the reason why we like Omed over ADFIS is for the simplicity. And and it's it's much easier to to take in more calories than you want doing an alternate day fasting versus that. Omed But that is still it's it can still be give opportunities for slippage if you're not careful. So so tighten it up and you'll see the results follow. [00:29:05] Thank you. Thank you. A reminder and then maintaining the weight loss forever. So it's kind of like you get a little bit lax, you know, into law. To your point, if you're really hungry and you want to mix it up with a couple, I'd rather see a more open window. Right. More of an if a twenty four or. Yeah. 16 eight where you actually do get just two meals a little bit close together. That's fine. Just remember, if you want to go back and listen to the cephalic phase in The Hunger podcast, a lot of times hunger isn't real. It's more of a hydration electrolyte issue which is simply solved by using some sea salt or some combination salt or some trace minerals. So, Laura, I really appreciate your transparency. I appreciate your question. Again, it's been a couple of weeks for us to get back to it, but we felt it was important enough to have its own conversation, its own episode, because there's so many things in there that we could unpack. Hopefully you guys get some value from it. Tommy, as always, appreciate. Sure. We appreciate likes on Facebook and we appreciate five star reviews on the Apple podcast Spotify. Actually, Spotify doesn't do reviews, but Apple podcast GUDEN. Leave us a review. Leave us a comment. We want that conversation. We want that feedback. Reach out to us at [email protected] for email. You can go to our contact page, leave us a voicemail. Nobody's left of a voicemail yet. I'm really disappointed. I was so excited about this. So tell me I want to get a message soon, so leave us a voicemail with a question. Clear, articulate so we can play it on the air, give you some credit. We love and appreciate you guys tell me. Have a great day. We'll talk to you too. [00:30:45] Thanks for being so. You've heard today's episode and you may be wondering where do I start? Head on over to thefastingforlife.com And sign up for our newsletter where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life. [00:31:01] While you're there, download your free Fast Start guide to get started today. Don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to leave us a five star review and we'll be back next week with another episode of Fasting for Life.
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