Ep. 72 - Fasting to improve Bloodwork, Triglycerides, Cholesterol, Fatty Liver | Low Fat Myths | ADF to Reverse Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease, Obesity, & Diabetes | One Meal a Day OMAD Free Intermittent Fasting Plan
In this episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy break down the research on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), a key component early in the overweight, obesity, and eventually diabetes processes. There was a low fat craze several decades ago, and some of the misinformation that was spread still lingers today about dietary fat leading to fatty deposits in the liver. This process is actually caused by certain sugars. They discuss effective ways to prevent and reverse NAFLD and other related outcomes.
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Fasting For Life Ep. 72
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:01] Hello, I'm Dr. Scott Watier,
Tommy Welling: [00:00:03] And I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast, and
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:08] This podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve.
Tommy Welling: [00:00:15] Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:25] We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned
[00:00:30] Along the way.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:40] Hey, Ron, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott Watier, and I'm here, as always, am a good friend and colleague, Tommy Welling. Good afternoon to you, sir.
Tommy Welling: [00:00:47] Hey, Scott. How are
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:47] You? Good man. Good, good, good. I'm excited about today's episode. We're going to do something a little bit different. We're going to call it The Lightning Round, where we're going to go back and forth asking each other some questions, opening up a discussion around some of the most common things and conversations that we have in our day to day life around the practical side of fasting. There's also the personal, the social and the science of it. So we'll probably dabble in a little bit of that as we go through the episodes. So we have a a stack of questions here, and it's going to be kind of a little quiz time and I think it's going to lead to some good combos.
Tommy Welling: [00:01:25] Ok, cool. Yeah, I like it. We're ready.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:01:28] Yeah, I'm ready. So I'm going to I'm going to ask you first since I, I have the list in front of me. So good luck. Good luck to you, sir. Thank you. The odds forever be in your favor. So first question is really how do you decide when to do a longer fast. So something more than, let's say, you know, a two to three day, a two to three day fast. How how do you decide when to do that?
Tommy Welling: [00:01:54] Hmm. Well, I've done a few longer fasts from five to seven days, and I'd say probably when I was ready to to pull the trigger on those was when I reached some sort of frustration point. I think it's almost like it it was like a spring that needed to be kind of compressed. And then I was I was I felt like I had the the energy and the wherewithal and just kind of the gumption. There was like a frustration with wanting to hit a certain goal or kind of break through a set point that I felt like I had some number that I couldn't I couldn't seem to get past on the scale. Yeah, I'd say it had to do with that.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:02:37] Yeah. I want to the frustration point was the first thing that popped into my head. I figure I'll ask you the question you can answer. I'll follow it up and then we can kind of go back and forth here. OK, so the frustration is definitely a key thing. A couple of the things that I thought about was. When I noticed that something one of my old cues or my old triggers from before I started to lose the weight, get my life back, be healthy, my wife said I was happier, all that kind of stuff. I was like, OK, am I anxious more? How is my sleep? How is my energy? Am I noticing that I'm not being is consistent with my fasting window am allowing some slippage in there. Yeah. And I'm like, oh yeah. You know what. Yeah, I have been feeling a little fluffy or I notice that my sleep spent a little bit off and I'm like, OK, well OK, it's time to kind of push the window a little bit, it's time to rip the Band-Aid off. So yeah, for, definitely for the set point or the scale being stuck or it's moving in the wrong direction over a two or three week period. Like I said, it's time to to hone back in and kind of kind of trim the fat, so to speak. But those are just a couple of additional things for me that I know when it's like. Right. It's time to push the window here.
Tommy Welling: [00:03:53] Yeah, there was a couple of times where I noticed it was getting tough to to hit just my my twenty three twenty four hour timer where, like you said, those slippage points were starting to come in and it was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm not hitting my own target, so I really need to do something different. I there must have been some sort of, you know, some, some habits that kind of crept back in or some just like lack of of, you know, like mental fortitude that I was feeling in the in the day to day that I felt like it was time for a reset. So let me let me let me hit the timer. Let me let me get the win that I know I can do. Do this longer, fast, and then just keep the momentum going from there. And so I felt like those were those were always productive and it always it always helped whenever I did that.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:04:46] Yeah. For me, it's stress. So like when I'm not planned or my schedule changes on the fly or a new project has dropped in my lap or something goes haywire or technology fails or, you know, one of the kids, you know, they're on spring break or something changes right where I wasn't expecting it or didn't see it coming. The stress piece of it is huge. So we talk a lot about stress and sleep in regards to fasting because of the effect that it has on insulin, which is the whole point of fasting to reduce the amount of time that your insulin levels are elevated so you can burn more fat, lose weight and keep the other all the other benefits that come along with fasting as well. So I like that framework. The frustration point is really a good starting point, though, because that's where my brain went to. So we're in agreement there. Yeah, I
Tommy Welling: [00:05:32] Got one last point on that. I, I feel like that kind of got back to to my roots of where this came from too. Like the reason I did my first pass was, was reaching that ultimate frustration point. That's what led me to kind of open up that door and then so, so kind of reigniting that, you know, I can I do that now through a longer fast from time to time.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:05:53] Yep, yep. I love it. I couldn't agree more. All right. Your turn.
Tommy Welling: [00:05:59] I you know, I like this question. What is your favorite thing to drink during a fast you know, that's not that you don't consider to to break your fast. What's your favorite thing to drink?
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:06:10] Well, first of all, if you're listening to this and you've listened to some of the other titans of fasting that have been around on the podcast circuit or on the YouTube circuit, when it comes to fasting, then we're going to have points of disagreement here in terms of what we feel is OK for the long term goal. So, Doctor, phone mentions, you know, anything under fifty calories. Well, he also says don't take the creamer out of your coffee. If the is the one thing that you're going to look forward to that day when you start fasting. Right. So for me, I keep it pretty strict. I don't think I'm in the clean, fast category of some of the other fasting gurus out there. Right. Some of the other fasting podcast for it's water and coffee. And that's it, right? Black coffee. So for me, though, when I had my CGM, I had done a test with coffee and I actually had a dip in my glucose readings, post ingestion of plain black organic coffee. And that showed me that my access was being stressed a little bit. And I was actually having an insulin response, so I had to cut it out.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:07:30] So there's a lot of gray area in in this question. So I know you didn't ask that, but I wanted to frame it on the front end that there's going to be some disagreement. You really need to find out what works for you. So for me, I can hold it up. It's an audio medium, but you can see it is one of our favorite go to use. I'll answer for you as well, is Waterloo. Yep. Same flavor Manchus. I got news across the inter webs. It's a black cherry Waterloo. So good, so good. And then I also like using the element electrolyte packets when I'm doing fast cycling and I'm doing back to back to back fast's longer than let's say eighteen to twenty two hours. I like to use the elements anywhere between one to three in the afternoon because that is the time where I feel the most hunger and cravings and I need that little extra pick me up. So that's, that's, that's what I, those are my two. I couldn't give you one. I had to give you two.
Tommy Welling: [00:08:31] Yeah. I mean for me, you know, like you said, cheers here. The Black Cherry or any number of the flavors of Waterloo. I just I really like those as kind of a go to something to kind of get out of the chair, do something a little different, have a little bit of a ritual. I'm not going to eat lunch during the middle of the day, but I am going to go downstairs or go to the fridge and and get a unsweetened sparkling water. Yeah. And I think that's it's a nice way to kind of break it up and break up from just regular regular water and black coffee.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:09:06] I love it. All right. So my turn got a few here. Which one do I want to lob into your lap? I think I like this one, which is if you had to break your fast from here on out, the fasting friendly lifestyle, the insulin friendly lifestyle. Right. I'm finding it finding a way to work this into your day to day life to regain control long term here if you break your fast with one meal. So no variability from here on out, you get one meal to break your fast with. What would it be? I can't wait to see where this conversation goes.
Tommy Welling: [00:09:43] And that's a tough one, though. And the length, the length of fast doesn't matter. I just have to choose one meal. No matter how short
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:09:51] You can't pick, you can't pick the deep dish pizza. No place around the corner, because if you're doing an eighteen or a twelve hour fast and you're going to break it with pizza every time, that's going to be really darn hard. So that's what I love about this question.
Tommy Welling: [00:10:05] And and if it was a longer, fast and you broke it with that pizza, you're going to feel terrible.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:10:10] You're going to end if you guys are new to this podcast and new to Tommy. And I like pizza. My my thing like pizza is like my my, my krux. So we're plan for it in our family. So I know that it's coming so that I don't have to think about it the rest of the time.
Tommy Welling: [00:10:25] Every once in a while. Yeah. I have that pizza night. Right, but I definitely don't want to break a longer fast with it. And yeah if I did that during the shorter fast it would add up for sure. If I only had to pick one meal it would, it's going to have a lot of veggies in it because I just know if I had to break it because because I worry about those longer. Fast, if I break it without like front loading that with some good veggies, I'm just going to I'm going to really feel terrible. And even if it's like overly protein packed, it's going to feel so heavy, especially anything longer than like a forty eight hour fast. It's just going to I'm going to feel it, feel miserable. So it's probably going to be like my favorite just super loaded salad or like a loaded like you can get them at certain Mexican restaurants or or like a, like a build your own salad place where I can put all my favorite proteins and and nuts and veggies in it. And with some good dressing they'll do like even just with a side of like oil and vinegar, like really, really good though.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:11:31] So you're telling me you're going to eat a salad to break your fast for from here on out for the remaining fifty years. I don't know however many years left right. You if you're going that's what you're going to do or you're just going to quit fasting because that's what I would do if I chose salad. Like no that's not that. No that's so this is why I love this because we're going to differ here. But are you really telling me that is everyone else here, that's the thousands of people are going to hear this, going to believe that story.
Tommy Welling: [00:11:59] So I am assuming I can eat other things, too. But it's just when I'm breaking well, every every time you eat, you're breaking a fast. So so this is literally the last meal that I can ever have, then.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:12:10] That's the construct. That is what what is. Yeah, you have to understand that with one meal, we're. Yes, I do. The extremes.
Tommy Welling: [00:12:19] Oh my goodness. I feel like there wasn't enough time to to prep for this. OK, so, OK,
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:12:27] What is your favorite meal then, to break a fast?
Tommy Welling: [00:12:31] Well, a longer fast is just like what I what I just said right there. OK, so I
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:12:35] Want to play the other game. You only get one more this one meal every time you break it.
Tommy Welling: [00:12:40] Yeah. OK, so what's your answer then.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:12:42] So I'm going eight ounces of red meat. I don't care in what form. Doesn't matter. Don't care. Have a little garlic butter on top sear that baby ground beef doesn't matter. Red meat of some sort. I know it's not an exact answer. And then I want a couple hundred grams of either green beans or broccoli so I can pick either. Doesn't matter. Does it have to be cooked in bacon or anything fancy like a green bean casserole. I literally just want broccoli or green beans so I can pick one of those with Karingal butter. Right. A couple of slabs of butter on there. And then I want just a little bit of some form of either brown jasmine rice or like a Watier for the little cream or potatoes that have the skins on them.
Tommy Welling: [00:13:29] Oh yeah. New potatoes.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:13:30] Watier. Yeah, just like probably a cup of that. That's my meal. I can fit into any window I can break any fast with. I've done it, I love it and I can, I literally ate that for like I don't know. That's pretty much the make up of all of our meals in our house. Substitute the chicken or the salmon or something else in between. That's what it would be if that was the one meal that I had to now my favorite meal to break a fast. I think I think I'm going to have to think about that for a second. So please filibuster.
Tommy Welling: [00:14:02] Yeah, well, I was I was giving a little bit. I thought, well, first of all, my stomach just grumbled, like, so loud fat baby.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:14:11] Right.
Tommy Welling: [00:14:12] And but I really do enjoy breaking it fast. Like, if I'm if we're going to go to a restaurant, some like sometimes we'll we'll do like a lunch date or something like that, especially coming off of maybe a thirty six hour fast or thirty or forty two hour fast. And I really like breaking that with, with sushi or something from a Japanese restaurant where, where I know I'm going to get a nice mix of, of protein carbs from the rice. I got a good source of veggies. It like it can fill me up and I enjoy the process, I enjoy eating it without feeling terrible or without feeling like I ever overdid it, really, you know. So I think that that food group just just has a certain balance to it that I really enjoy. So I'm going to change my previous answer and say that if I if I had to just pick one meal and basically be my my favorite kind of sushi based meal, for sure,
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:15:08] You'd want to eat that.
Tommy Welling: [00:15:10] Forever, sure. Yeah, we do that.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:15:13] Yeah, I like it cool. All right. OK, what do we got next time. What question?
Tommy Welling: [00:15:23] You're your longest fast yup, is Hellam
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:15:28] A couple hours over seven days, OK,
Tommy Welling: [00:15:30] Seven day fast, seven days plus.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:15:34] Why have those hours count? As I contemplated my life in the moment, I really wanted to continue. But we had a date night.
Tommy Welling: [00:15:40] Right, right. You really you really wanted to continue like that. That's such an important point. I've I've never broken any fast longer than like two or three days and not felt like I really just want to continue this fast. Like I, I almost regret it before I even break it. Like, I don't want to be breaking this fast, like, so that
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:16:01] I hear a question in here.
Tommy Welling: [00:16:02] Well not yet.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:16:03] Ok, ok. OK, just make sure the
Tommy Welling: [00:16:05] Question is why have you never done a ten day fast or a 30 day fast like we hear that kind of stuff. People are doing it. Why have you never done it?
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:16:17] Yeah, that's a really good question, and I wish I would have seen that coming. And I think it might be related to the first question where we talk about, you know, when you decide to do a longer, fast and so. That frustration point that comes in, so I haven't gotten to a point where I feel like I need to do anything longer, so in my analytical state of my brain, which I typically operate in most days, taking the emotion out of it, I don't think I feel the need to do anything longer. So if I had been fasting for two years, let's say, and I lost the weight and I'm feeling good, but then I came back and my insulin resistance, my insulin fasting insulin levels were still like 20. I'd be like, oh, crap. Well, all of my forty eight thirty thirty six is twenty four is eighteen. Yeah it got me the result on the outside that I was looking for. But physiologically I'm still showing insulin resistance and I know the complications of what that is and my family history and all of that stuff, diabetes and heart disease and heart attacks and yada yada. I think I would then push the window and I would really be like, all right, here we go, ripping the Band-Aid off.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:17:40] I'm going however long it takes. Yeah, right. And I would have that motivation to do it. But for me, adding in that seven days on the journey to lose 50, 50 pounds in 50 days and maintaining 40 plus pounds of that lost since I haven't really felt the need to do it. So I know there's some people out there that do it for spiritual reasons. Sure. That do it depending on the religion and the time of year know like Daniel diet and those types of things. So yeah, I think the answer is I haven't ever really felt the need that I had to just like when I started fasting, I hadn't been getting results with anything else. So I literally was like, all right, I'm just gonna stop. You told me to stop eating for twenty four hours and then we did a lot of fluctuations between, you know, twenty four to seventy two and the results were there. So I think the reason I haven't done it is I haven't felt the need to do it based on results or necessity.
Tommy Welling: [00:18:41] Good answer. Yeah, I think I think that's a that's a tough one to to like I could. I can tell that you put some thought into why you hadn't done it and had you ever thought about that before?
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:18:57] No, I honestly hadn't. I hadn't. And we got a question recently from one of our continuity members post our most recent challenge. You actually asked how you were going to be doing any longer, fast. And I didn't even really I was like, no. I just got carried on and moved away from it, not even thinking about us. Do you have any other added perspective there
Tommy Welling: [00:19:20] For me, just like you mentioned before, like you broke that that seven day and a couple hours, you broke it for a date night. So my my multiple seven day fasts have always ended at a date night. So that's just a really, really important non-negotiable for me that I don't want to be sitting there connecting with my wife without eating or drinking anything with her, like I like I could. And she's invited me to do it. Like, I don't don't let me be the reason she cheat.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:19:50] Unlike my wife, she has she's had great fasting success, right? Yeah.
Tommy Welling: [00:19:56] She's she's definitely a walking, walking, talking testimony for for the success. And, you know, so she's she's been very supportive of it. And but I just never liked the idea that I would continue the fast through that through that date night. So I think that's the reason why I've never gone to like a ten day like I do like the idea that I can go ten days without consuming anything. And I think at some point I will do that that ten day fast. I don't I don't really feel a drive to do anything beyond that point. But I love the way I feel on on all the five and seven day fast that I've done.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:20:31] Yeah, there were some points along the way that weren't fun. So for you guys that are new to the podcast, this is probably not an appropriate conversation. If you're new to fasting and you're at 18 hours going, what in the heck? Don't worry. This is not how Tommy and I got the results or a lot of people get results. It's in the consistent slow build up using the different fasting windows in the fast cycling that we talk about, you know, stacking an 18 a 30 hour on top of an 18 hour with some twenty four hours mixed in. What is maintenance look like? You know, all those different conversation. So for us, it was I like that conversation of the. Yeah, why haven't I gone longer? And that ties ties into what you said with the non negotiable of when to decide to do a longer, fast, you know, having my family come in for two weeks. And my wife and I are going away for an anniversary for a couple of nights just north of where we live. That's probably not the time to be like, you know, what are going to do a 10 day fast, right. Like that makes no sense. So there's social and personal and practical sides to this as well. So one last question here, Tommy. I mean, do I want to go with that one? I came up with a couple more as we were kind of talking through in conversation here. If you had to pick only one fasting window, like one time one one window. Right. So one of the fast cycle windows that we just talked about, what would that be for you and why?
Tommy Welling: [00:22:03] Oh, man, that's a cool question,
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:22:05] Not just once, this is this is the tool that you have in your toolbox. I'm just going to. This is it. This is the window you get to do. This is it.
Tommy Welling: [00:22:12] Yeah. This is the only timer that I can ever set every time I sort of FaceTime or OK. I am going to go with thirty six hours.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:22:23] Come on,
Tommy Welling: [00:22:25] Is that your answer? Oh, you should have answered it before yesterday saying it. OK, well maybe we'll have different ones. Transparency, we didn't know each other's answers going into this, so I'm going thirty six hours because. A few different reasons, you it's it's very difficult to to overconsume. Thirty six hours worth of calories, like in any given setting or any given eating window, like I know I'm going to consistently maintain a significant caloric deficit. So if I'm in fat burning mode, it it's it's kind of a no brainer. And but I don't have to go multiple days without without any sort without it kind of putting things on hold, without any social interactions or without eating dinner with the family or anything else like that, like this one one dinner. And then by the next day you're you're eating something. You have you have an eating window right there. Right.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:23:31] So you have your food on both days, it's flexible, can do breakfast, dinner, lunch, can all be kind of included in that, right? So I like it and I like that it gives the flexibility. I'm going to go with the fact that it's one of the most effective time windows that's been shown to help reverse insulin resistance and promote insulin sensitivity. So I'm going to go with the more go figure the analytical side of it that I want the benefits right. I want the benefit the most bang for our buck. So why do I do my not one of the questions, but thank you for asking, Tommy, is because it fits into my day to day life and how I feel like I like the idea of a lot of the times having dinner with the family at night, Monday through Thursday. It's a sprint, but it gives us it gives me flexibility and allows me to maintain the weight loss, feel good, et cetera. But if I if I'm going to go most bang for the buck in terms of weight loss and long term goal or gain, I think I would I would go with the research underlying there saying that, yeah, this is where this is where you're going to get the most bang for your buck physiologically without having to do those longer. Forty eight to seventy two or five day, seven day or even longer fast where for me it's that consistent sustainability over time which has been shown to be the most effective.
Tommy Welling: [00:24:57] Yeah, that consistency is key because finding finding something you can, you can actually do on a repeatable basis is going to be much more important than, let's say, going the next 30 days, you know, doing a 30 day fast or something, something more extreme like that. Right. And the other thing I really love about the thirty six hour mark that I think gets to that that fat burning and insulin sensitivity desensitising is I feel great, especially going towards getting towards the end of that. And if I'm checking my ketones, my ketones are always significantly up at that point. So I know I've reached a significant stage of fat burning every time I do a thirty six hour fast. And so I'm excited to break the fast. I'm excited for the window and it's something that for me is very sustainable and repeatable. So I really like it.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:25:44] Oh I love it. So I'm sitting here thinking as we're having these, these conversations, if you guys are new to the podcast and you want to know more about insulin resistance, resistance, insulin sensitivity, fasting windows, which ones we we like better and and reasons as to why and comparing Obade to if et cetera, scroll through the previous episodes, feel free to shoot us a message at info at the Fasting for Life Dotcom. If you guys have been with us for a while, you've been on this journey. We appreciate you listening. And hopefully you enjoyed a little bit different of a framework of an episode that Tommy and I typically do. But I still think it led to some pretty good conversation and some action steps or any last thoughts before we wrap up today.
Tommy Welling: [00:26:24] Yeah, I'd say, you know, if you listen to this and some of this just sounded like, oh, well, that's just that's just outside of my comfort zone, you know, I'm going to encourage you to to push yourself just a little bit outside of your comfort zone and, you know, maybe take one or two of the things that we mentioned today and and see what you can really do. Because, you know, growth is is always in that in that discomfort zone. So so make yourself a little bit uncomfortable and push yourself to new heights and and you'll see new results to love it.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:26:53] If you're looking for some more guidance or a community of like minded fasting individuals, you can check us out on Facebook, the fasting for life community to free Facebook group. And then also you can go to our website, BWB Fasting for Life Dotcom, the fasting for Life Dotcom. You sign up for our newsletter, download the Fast Start guide, which will give you six simple steps in how to put fasting into your day to day life. Tumi, as always, great conversation, sir. Thank you so much. We'll talk soon.
Tommy Welling: [00:27:23] Thank you. Bye. So you've heard today's episode and you may be wondering where do I start? Head on over to the Fasting for Life Dotcom and sign up for our newsletter where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life. Why are you there? Download your free
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