In this episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss why an insulin-friendly lifestyle is so important to maximizing fasting benefits and making results stick for a lifetime. Insulin plays a key role in fat storage and is the primary lever we need to pull in order to lose fat and regain control of our health. Dietary, lifestyle, and timing considerations are the main topics considered to most easily adopt an insulin-friendly lifestyle.
Fasting For Life Ep. 66
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:01] Hello, I'm Dr. Scott Watier,
Tommy Welling: [00:00:03] And I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast, and
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:08] This podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve.
Tommy Welling: [00:00:15] Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:25] We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned
[00:00:30] Along the way.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:40] Hey, everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott Watier. I'm here, as always, with my good friend and colleague, Tommy Welling. Good afternoon to you, sir.
Tommy Welling: [00:00:47] Hey, Scott. How are you
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:00:49] Doing? Fantastic man. Ready to rock and roll on a really cool conversation today. I want to bring a lot of clarity to it. We're going to be referencing a researcher that is just at the forefront of fasting and dietary changes and insulin resistance and all of these other just incredible discoveries that he's heading up and a lot of cool research and conversation that's coming out of it. And I want to make sure that we you know, we we bring some actionable things that we can do in terms of benefiting our journey, our fasting journey, our health journey, our weight loss journey, whatever is brought to you into the fasting matrix. So I really think are going to be able to to come together with more of a bigger picture of what a fasting or insulin friendly lifestyle is and why it's important.
Speaker3: [00:01:48] Yeah, and I love the intersection of that, which there's there's so many moving parts there. We're talking about food and nutrition and lifestyle, dietary changes. The list goes on. But the way that this particular researcher puts those things together with the most cutting edge research and drawing conclusions that have just proven time after time to be just so far ahead of the curve. And I mean, he's he's helping to to change the the trajectory for for research in all of these fields.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:02:26] Yeah. And he did a three part series on the ultimate guide to insulin resistance to insulin resistance is pretty much the thing that we focus on is the thing that, you know, fasting as the tool allows us to uncover the resistance and the weight gone off and stayed off. And for both of us and then all the other people that's been on this journey with us. So, you know, the first two parts of that series, he talked about the origins and the consequences of insulin resistance. And, you know, we talk a lot about we just did an episode recently about heart. We've done episodes about brain health, more and more of the chronic conditions associated with, you know, having the excess weight, the insulin resistance, the obesity, the overweight type situation. You know, the chronic conditions like heart disease, diabetes, infertility, Alzheimer's, all of those different things can be can be linked back to having an unhealthy insulin resistance. So today, we really want to focus on what we are going to do to adopt that insulin friendly lifestyle. And he goes through the low calorie, low carbohydrate, low fat kind of diet mentality and where it's really gotten us as a society overall. And really I want to talk about what does that mean for you? Meaning what does that mean for you? Is it mean for our listeners? What does that mean for everyone that is trying to improve and move away from all of those comorbidities and poor health metrics and actually get a control over their health and their weight and increase their quality of life and just their overall health metrics. So I think this can be a good conversation.
Tommy Welling: [00:04:09] Yeah, I agree. And to be a little bit more specific to Ben Dyckman, Dr. Ben Dixon is who we're we're talking about here. And in the three part series, it was looking at the effects of energy and hormones on the insulin resistance and and how to integrate that into and build an insulin friendly diet from it.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:04:32] And really cool is the concept that even if you're not trying to lose weight or battle insulin resistance or the host of the other all the other stuff that comes along with that, there's still value in the low insulin or diet approach or the low insulin or the insulin friendly lifestyle is a better way to say it. So we want to reduce the insulin over time, which which allows the sensitivity or the effectiveness of the insulin to do its job. And then that keeps you from kind of tipping over, you know, or falling off the edge of a cliff, so to speak, into a metabolically unhealthy state, which is then related to all of the things that we mentioned just a couple of minutes ago. So I really like how this applies directly to what it is that we've been teaching, but then also kind of puts it in a bigger perspective.
Tommy Welling: [00:05:28] Yeah, and when we talk about the insulin friendly lifestyle, I think it's easy to just immediately think low carb, which has its own kind of connotations and different definitions for different people. And everyone has a different experience with with low carbohydrate diets. And and that's not necessarily specifically what we're we're talking about here. Right.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:05:54] Yeah, I want to have more production value, I want, like a little soundboard where you say something like that and I can just make like a sound in the background, like a something to like. Like a buzzard, like. Yeah, like a buzzer like a want sound or something where it's like, no, no, no, no, we're not going to talk about that. So yeah, a lot of people, the low carb concept is your carbs get a bad rap. And that's they're they're one of the three macronutrients that our body can use as energy and they should be part of a balanced diet. So low carb, if you're trying to reverse diabetes, increase your metabolic state, reverse disease processes, there are benefits to reducing the carbohydrates because those things spike insulin. The most interestingly enough, which is why I love this research. But Dr. Bickman is you know, we don't want to remove necessarily remove the carbohydrates, but we can take some steps into replacing or focusing on the correct carbs. So you get some long term results because anyone that's tried to do strict kiddo and remove their carbohydrates. And just as a as a disclaimer, we don't subscribe to any one specific dietary pattern program. There's benefits to doing low carb. Like I just mentioned. If you're trying to get your blood sugar numbers under control, it's one of the easiest things you can do.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:07:18] But the studies and we've talked about this don't show that the results last because it's omitting a lot of the foods that we grew up with, a lot of our habits, a lot of the the stuff that we truly enjoy. Carbohydrates are typically some of the better tasting foods on top of all the other stuff that's in it. Right. So we don't eat long term. The research shows that the people that actually try to do that long term put more weight on which then affects the the metabolically unhealthy state rights. You moving farther away. So we don't want to do that. So there's a few things here that we can do that are really actionable and still be able to enjoy some of the carbohydrate. So the first one is really avoiding just sugars. Right? So sugar is in a lot of different things that you don't typically think of. It's in a lot of the canned condiments. It's in peanut butter. I've seen it in in in mustard. It's in like soups and sauces and all this stuff that you kind of add to your foods. So you just want to be aware if you're trying to adopt and control some of the carbohydrates without that full one hundred percent restriction mindset that there's there's hidden sugar sauces everywhere.
Tommy Welling: [00:08:36] Yeah, there are. And I was just taking a look at at a few nutrition labels last night. I was actually planning out some some sushi rice. We're going to like make some California rolls and things like that. And so when I was looking at some of the vinegars, they had just tablespoons of high fructose corn syrup or sugar right in there in different vinegar products. That was just taken me by surprise. So, yeah, in the pantry, in the fridge, there's condiments can really get you. And there's just it comes by a lot of different names, too. I mean, you have different agaves and brown rice syrups and and yeah. All these kind of things where you can extract a sugar from something that sounds so good. It sounds innocuous. It sounds like, oh there's almost like there's vegetables in there. There's corn in there. Right. But we can we can do these, these mechanical things and extract the sugar. And those are some of the worst processes by which to get those right.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:09:31] And I it's I just want to go back to one thing you just said. You're going to make sushi. So I'm I'm the guy who can, like, make some patties of some grass fed ground beef and put them on on the grill and make that come out well and eat it. And my wife's happy. But I. You're in a different level there, sir. So I'm just going to kind of shuffle that under the rug that you're going to make your homemade sushi and move on to the next one, which is carbohydrates are not necessarily bad, but there are more natural versions rather than more processed versions. So really, you know, if it's in a box or a package or has a bunch of ingredients you can't read, it's probably not a carb. Do you want to be ingesting. So just stick to the more natural carbohydrates, the starchy vegetables, the things that grow in the ground, so to speak. And you'll see that your body will respond better to that rather than that. That one thing we always refer to is that book that talks about the palatability or the engineered mouth feel like, yeah, if we're talking about things, processed foods and stuff, you're just setting yourself up to have a bigger or greater struggle with those types of foods. So starting to swap some things out would be a good place to start.
Speaker3: [00:10:50] Yeah, absolutely. And that starts in the grocery store. Spending more time in the refrigerated section on the on the outskirts, rather than the process inside part where all the cans and boxes and plastic packaging. That's right,
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:11:08] Yeah. We used to do shopping tours and it was always fun with new people. And they'd be like, when are we going to go down those aisles? I'm like, we're not. And they just kind of look at you like, oh, OK. Yeah, you've got everything you need. You got seventy five things on this piece of paper I presented. You just stay out of the middle aisles. So we used to have a joke. I'm just going to run down here and grab the coconut and then I'm going to come out. So a third one for carbohydrates. We don't drink them. So there's a big difference between an insulin response between drinking a fruit juice and eating the same fruit because of the fiber content. Yeah. So we we want to make sure that we're getting if we're going to be having those types of sugars or carbohydrates, don't don't drink them because you're going to be having a greater insulin spike. And that's just a simple thing you can just kind of pay attention to. It's not really a big drastic change in the last one is not my cup of tea. So I don't know if you have any experience with with the last thing we want to touch on here.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:12:04] Which one? The fermented foods. So I'm not a big fermented food guy, but fermented foods are a great way. You know, yogurt, sauerkraut, sour dough's. The bacteria that's in those foods actually does some of the sugar breakdown for us, which then that decreases the amount of blood sugar or sugar that gets into the bloodstream. So for the carbohydrate conversation, we're going to be looking at, carbs are not bad. They're one of the macronutrients. We don't need to demonize them. Low carb long term is not successful in a lot of the research. So you want to avoid the sugar, the hidden sugars. You want to go more natural. You want to try not to drink your carbohydrates. And then if you can get some good fermented foods, yogurt, sauerkraut, sarandos, which is going to help you still have some of the salad or bread, for instance, is a bread, but the bacteria will actually help break down some of that sugar content. So then you are not getting as much of a spike into the bloodstream. Yeah. Tell me anything else on the on the carbs remove on the protein.
Tommy Welling: [00:13:09] Yeah, that even brings us back to when we were talking about the apple cider vinegar and then the the vinegar with the oil and vinegar dressing, things like that that go going along with those carbohydrates, like dipping your bread and a little bit of oil and vinegar can slow that digestion can. Lessen the insulin spike in the blood sugar spike and the research behind that, too, so so that that pairs up nicely with that.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:13:37] Yeah, it's interesting because we talk about this study and we're going to go on a protein here and one of the studies that we went over, I think it was either in the challenge or I don't remember where we came across it, but it was combining the fat and the protein first before you ate the carbohydrate. And, oh, that was when I was doing my CGM, my constant glucose monitoring, which is like a like a blood sugar monitor. But you wear it and it gives you like a 10 to 15 minute delayed reading on what you've ingested, your stress levels. It was really cool to see. Yeah, but I noticed I did a couple of tests where I would eat the same meal, but I would eat it in a different order. I'd eat carbohydrate first, like the sweet potato versus the the the chicken and the broccoli with the caramel butter on it. So it was interesting to see that there was a change about a fifteen point difference in that ordering of the food. So this one, he talks a lot about protein. If we can keep carbohydrate consumption moderate to low and keep the blood sugar low, then we'll typically have little to no insulin response to dietary protein. So if you are working out your building lean tissue, you want to you want to lean out, but you're working out to actually build lean muscle at the same time you want to be able to get that that protein in. And it's cool because if you keep the carbs low and the glucose load and your protein doesn't have a negative effect on the insulin response, however, the opposite is true. If your carbs are high and your blood sugar is high, then the protein will have a higher response. And your insulin, which is then kind of undoing the whole idea of where we want to go with this insulin friendly lifestyle.
Tommy Welling: [00:15:25] And then you can you can apply the same thing to weight, protein and after workout shakes as well. So if you're if if your blood sugar and your insulin has has been elevated and those numbers aren't where they should be, and then you bring in more more protein thinking that you're doing something good for yourself after a workout, you can actually be going the exact wrong direction, bringing in hundreds of more calories, spiking the insulin and your blood sugar even more, and all the while thinking that you're you're you're going down the right road there.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:16:02] Yeah. And it's that whole in about anabolic window has been disputed. And really the idea and what the research has been shown recently is the consistent intake of protein. So anywhere from point eight, all the way up to one point five grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, one point five is on the high end. Right. That's a lot of protein, but somewhere in that range. And you don't have to have it in a certain time frame after a workout. But that's a really good point. So it's the consistent intake of the protein that's going to have a better outcome on your lean body tissue. And, you know, really, you know, with with the protein intake, just be aware. You know, sometimes some of the meats actually have added sugars in them, especially like the cured meats, sausages, jerkies, those types of things. So just watch even bacon just want the the sugar content on those as their category is going to be the fat. So fat, kiddo, you've heard a lot about Kaito. You replace the carbohydrates. It's good to use the fat. The fat is satiating and fat typically has little effect on insulin.
Tommy Welling: [00:17:13] Yeah, and that's that's really good to know, because
Speaker3: [00:17:17] It can be a counterintuitive thing, especially if you're kind of new to the fasting and kind of understanding what what the different macronutrients do. It can almost a lot of people, and especially going through the 70s and 80s were kind of low fat, became king. And it was like that makes you fat. Was was kind of the big myth that a lot of people started integrating and believing. So just knowing that that fat has very little effect on blood sugar and on insulin, that's that's a very good thing. We're heading down the right direction.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:17:54] Yeah. And, you know, the thing with good fats is that typically, you know, if you're using like we use Karingal Butter, we cook an avocado oil, we will use that when we make green beans or spray it on and then just douse the green beans with garlic and salt and pepper and the kids love it. So, like, those good healthy fats are not something to be afraid of. And yeah, it's the least insulin spiking of them all. So something you can definitely add and not have to worry about too much if you are being told the opposite, that dietary fat is a bad thing. You know, Senate should, as a message, tell us what's going on. We can help clarify that for you. But with protein, we talked about the carbohydrates, the protein. We want to prioritize it. Keeping the carbs in the blood sugar low allows protein to have less of an effect on insulin. And then fat has the least effect on insulin, which some people just don't know. And to wrap up kind of the thirty thousand foot view of this three series kind of framework or guide to the insulin resistance or insulin friendly lifestyle, one thing is we don't want to forget. There's a lot of other factors that have an effect on reducing the risk of insulin resistance and then therefore all of the other metabolic factors, cardiovascular issues, the diabetes, et cetera, that come with that because insulin resistance leads to weight gain, which leads to carrying that extra weight around obesity, et cetera. So we want to make sure that we are still focusing on not just the macronutrients or what we're eating, but we talk about the trifecta for me, Tommy, which was stress, sleep and then the frequency of my food. So the meal timing.
Speaker3: [00:19:46] Yeah, yeah. I mean, those those three things. Right. There are going to be those are going to dictate most of the results, most of your health related outcomes, the way that you see on the scale how you feel day to day, and then also how easy or difficult is it to to actually stick to your fasting window and to have a plan and execute on that plan? Because if you're if you sleep off from the night before, you don't wake up the right way. You don't feel great energy. Low motivation becomes lower. Then it's it's tougher to get back on board with setting a strict fasting window. And and then it leads to different decisions. Inhibitions are lowered. I mean, it's just a cascade. It's it's a it's a downward spiral. It can be.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:20:35] So like where you mentioned the word they're fasting. Right. So this is a fasting podcast, fasting, fasting life. Absolutely. Want to make sure that fasting here. So we talked about the food components. Right. We just mentioned the sleep component, reducing your stress. These are all things that can lead to insulin resistance, weight loss, resistance, etc. So we want to make sure that we're getting balanced micronutrients, things like a like an electrolyte supplementation or multivitamin we get asked a lot about. We just did a Q&A about that a few episodes ago. You want to avoid the processed foods. If you can stick to the low carb veggies, if you are going to have carbohydrates, stick to the more non processed ones, reduce the stress. We want to be exercising. We want to be moving. So really. And then what? You had mentioned the sleep. So we want to be looking at this is what can we do to stack the deck in our favor while fasting? Does that fasting takes out the amount of time that insulin remains high in your body. So the longer your fast, the lower your insulin goes and the higher the effectiveness or the sensitivity sensitivity of that insulin increases. And that's where we see the major health benefits outside of just the weight loss. I shouldn't say just the weight loss, but the weight loss specifically.
Tommy Welling: [00:21:52] Right. And that works hand in hand with with all these small dietary changes and small tweaks that we can make. And for a matter of perspective, I remember before I I understood the power of fasting before I came across it or actually tried it and understood it. I was I was I was unwilling to make small changes, like some of the things that we're talking about with the insulin friendly lifestyle, because I didn't know how to make any of the bigger changes and actually see any difference on the scale. So that's that's a bit of learned helplessness like we talk about sometimes. And but when you when you understand how powerful fasting is and you start using it and you can see the scale finally start to go in the right direction or pick up steam, if you were already heading in the right direction, then it becomes much, much easier. And it makes more sense to start integrating some of these smaller tweaks. And you just continue to see better and better results when you start stacking them all together.
Dr. Scott Watier: [00:22:59] Yeah, I love the idea of an insulin friendly lifestyle as long as you understand what insulin is and what it does. Right. So if you're new to fasting and you came here for weight loss. Yep. That's what me too. That's a lot of it came from there, but it came from the fact that I knew I was carrying the extra weight. I was doing all the things I was tracking. I was working out for years and years and years. And every year I kept getting a little bit less healthy and a little bit heavier and a little bit more tired and a little bit more frustrated. So if you're new to fasting, you're looking for some guidance. You can go to our website, the fasting for Life Dotcom, the fasting for life dotcom. You can sign up for our Fast Start guide. It is a simple six step PDF that will allow you to put fasting into your day to day life. Shout out to Dr. Benjamin Pechman for the research. You can get the link to the article in the show notes. We love and appreciate each one of you guys for being on this journey with us. We also appreciate you dropping us a review. We prefer the five star version that shows. Apple podcast that we are doing something good, that we're engaged, that we have a good listenership, so we really appreciate you guys dropping us a review, going to drop us a comment as well. That's great. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us on the contact us portion of our website. And me, as always. Thank you, sir. And we'll talk soon.
Tommy Welling: [00:24:24] Thank you. So you've heard today's episode and you may be wondering where do I start? Head on over to the Fasting for Life Dotcom and sign up for our newsletter, where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life. Why are you there? Download your free
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