Ep. 112 - The Complexity Of Metformin Vs Berberine | What Are The Side Effects, Risks, And Rewards? | Free Intermittent Fasting Plan for OMAD

berberine health health and wellness medical medicine metformin wellness Feb 15, 2022

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In this episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss the complexity of metformin versus berberine, the incredible benefits of berberine, metformin mechanism and the side effects of both, why berberine is not just for pre-diabetics in the short term, and how it has a great effect without the side effects compared to the standard operating procedure in the medical system.

Show Transcript: www.thefastingforlife.com/blog

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Fasting For Life Ep. 112 Transcript

00;00;01;24 - 00;00;03;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Hello. I'm Dr. Scott Watier.

00;00;03;17 - 00;00;06;21
[Tommy Welling]
And I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast.

00;00;08;09 - 00;00;14;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
This podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve.

00;00;15;25 - 00;00;24;10
[Tommy Welling]
Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design.

00;00;25;01 - 00;00;45;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned along the way. Everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott Waters, and I'm here as always and a good friend and colleague, Tommy rolling.

00;00;45;29 - 00;00;47;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Good afternoon to you, sir.

00;00;47;14 - 00;00;48;29
[Tommy Welling]
Hey, Scott, how are you doing?

00;00;48;29 - 00;01;06;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Fantastic, my friend. We are going to have an incredible conversation today. I feel confidence in that as this is something that we've gotten a lot of questions about. And it is something that really speaks to both of our intentions with why we fast and why we started this whole fasting pro-life thing.

00;01;06;11 - 00;01;19;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So I'm excited about today. Tell me if you're new to the podcast. Go back to episode 100 and I can't believe we are. I don't even know what episode this is, but we're past the century mark and it's incredible.

00;01;19;25 - 00;01;36;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So episode 100 is a place almost like a starting place where you can go back and can get the highlights and the motivation, but also some of the most impactful episodes that we've gotten feedback on and kind of give you the basics of who we are and what we do.

00;01;36;17 - 00;01;46;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
If you want to hear our story, you can go all the way back to the first couple of episodes with Grace, of course, and get a little bit more insight into who we are and into our fasting journey.

00;01;47;07 - 00;02;09;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And today's conversation Tommy really hits home with, you know, only certainly my personal journey, my family's journey and the journey of so many of you listeners and people that we've helped along the way. So I'm excited to break down the complexity of metformin versus berberine.

00;02;10;07 - 00;02;31;16
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And if those words are new to you, metformin is the starting place for a lot of people when they end up with a symptom and they end up going to the doctor and having some bloodwork done. And then it comes back that you have a cholesterol or high blood pressure issue, as well as a fasting blood glucose

00;02;31;16 - 00;02;43;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
test that comes back high. That puts you in the prediabetes range and then your option. The number one option is to be offered or to be put on a medication called metformin.

00;02;44;24 - 00;03;06;19
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And and usually along with that recommendation, you might be hearing about what's what's next, what's further down the line, right? And then if and when these parts of your blood work or these symptoms continue to progress, then there will probably be multiple other medications added on top of it, right?

00;03;06;19 - 00;03;10;04
[Tommy Welling]
Like it's the it's the first step in a potential cascade, right?

00;03;10;25 - 00;03;26;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. It's one of the things that we'd like to talk about is the reversal concept and we really want to look at like this reversal, right? So when you if you have a blood sugar that is your you have metabolic syndrome, you know, you get the the recommendations to your points on you eat healthy foods.

00;03;26;10 - 00;03;38;13
[Dr. Scott Watier]
OK, so what does that look like? Be more active, eat less, move more. Write news the excess weight, right? So five to 7% of your body weight is about £14 if you're £200 and get get into a healthier range, right?

00;03;38;26 - 00;03;53;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And we know just by looking around that that's not what's happening. We're moving in the opposite direction by 2030, 6% of the United States population is going to be overweight or obese. We're approaching that 40% obesity mark and then they'll tell you to stop smoking.

00;03;53;02 - 00;04;09;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then the medication conversation that you've alluded to and that we've mentioned is OK, well, when typically what we'll hear in the thousands of patient interactions that I've had in new consults and patient new patient consultations as well?

00;04;09;15 - 00;04;24;00
[Dr. Scott Watier]
OK, doctor, what are my options? OK, well, we just listed them. But OK, when I get on the medication, do I ever get off of it? And there doesn't seem to be an end point, and a lot of people will exhibit frustration of being stuck or just think that this is your only option.

00;04;24;21 - 00;04;44;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And. It's just frustrating, and this has been my personal experience as well, but also with my dad is like, OK, so what are the options? Are there other options out there? What is meant for me in doing what's it working on and is this helping me undo the problem that I actually have, which is a blood sugar

00;04;44;23 - 00;04;59;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
or metabolic related issue? And the answer in the short term is no, it's managing the symptom. It's not increasing the efficacy. There's I've never heard someone say, yeah, I got on metformin, I lost weight and I reversed my diabetes.

00;04;59;13 - 00;04;59;21
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah.

00;05;00;04 - 00;05;02;18
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Or prediabetes? Excuse me? Yeah.

00;05;02;23 - 00;05;23;16
[Tommy Welling]
I've also never heard that. What I have heard people say is, Hey, this fasting thing seems really, really powerful. I'm starting it. I'm liking it. I'm seeing the scale move. But I don't know how to do this now that I'm on metformin, so I almost feel like I like I see the solution, but I don't think I

00;05;23;16 - 00;05;28;24
[Tommy Welling]
can do this because I think the two are incompatible. Like, what should I do about that?

00;05;29;20 - 00;05;40;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, and that's that's great. So I've wanted to mention this is the beginning, and I completely forgot our next challenge coming up on February 23rd and you just reminded me of that conversation when we get the messages saying, Hey, I'm a diabetic.

00;05;40;06 - 00;05;59;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I'm a pre-diabetic. I've been fasting for a while. Can I do this challenge because of my medication? Like, Is this safe for me to do so? Are we saying in this moment because we're going to impact the incredible benefits of berberine and we're going to outline and unpack the metformin mechanism, what it's doing, how berberine is similar

00;05;59;25 - 00;06;16;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
, the side effects of both. And in the short term, our takeaway message is that Burberry, not just for diabetics or pre diabetics in the short term, has a great effect without the side effects compared to the standard operating procedure in the medical system.

00;06;16;03 - 00;06;30;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
When you get some blood work done in, your blood sugar is elevated, so in that medication conversation happens. So the challenge is coming up on the 23rd, you can go to the fasting for life dot com forward slash live and that starts February 23rd.

00;06;30;17 - 00;06;46;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It runs through March first. More information and details just click the link. It'll bring you to a registration page. You'll have all the bullet points and information. Get signed up. Don't miss out on that, Tommy, and that reminds me of a testimonial that we just had come through, and a lot of you that might be listening and

00;06;46;19 - 00;06;57;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
say, Well, I don't, you know, I haven't had to get to this point yet or I. I have the elevated blood pressure or my cholesterol numbers look off. My triglycerides are high, my LDL is low, high, my idols low.

00;06;57;08 - 00;07;11;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
The good and bad cholesterol, right? Yeah. And I haven't really gotten to this point. But if you're fasting, blood sugar is elevated above 100 in that range of 100 to 1:25 in your H1, C is elevated right above the 5.5 mark.

00;07;11;16 - 00;07;18;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Then you're going to be in that. That category of this is an eventual conversation if you don't do something different.

00;07;18;24 - 00;07;39;14
[Tommy Welling]
Right, right, right. Things are trending in the wrong direction. It's it's time to start pushing that, pushing those numbers in the right direction now. And that's that's kind of how you get the process started. And, you know, for the testimonial that that came in, that that process for four, Robert started with the challenge, right?

00;07;40;02 - 00;07;52;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It did. It did. So, man, just incredible. So this post just came up recently. I'm so glad that this came up in like real time, right? It was. We use the term hashtag NSV there during our challenges, right?

00;07;52;24 - 00;08;05;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So it's hashtag non scale victory because it's not about the weight loss, it's about the health, right? And Robert has a cool story because at one point, you know, joining back last summer, it was, you know, he had had some success with fasting.

00;08;05;23 - 00;08;20;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
He was doing great and all of a sudden he just got got in the group and just absolutely crushed it and had a couple of stumbling blocks along the way. You know, being a part of, you know, over the months had a couple of plateaus that we worked through, but we watched him at one point donate, like

00;08;21;11 - 00;08;32;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
, I'll say, a badass amount of of clothing to a local charity, and it was really cool to see that post. So let's share a little bit about that. And then we'll talk about his most recent update.

00;08;33;12 - 00;08;52;23
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, I mean, as as he kind of started going through the challenge and like the AHA's were just kind of hitting him like, Wow, I can do this, I can do something incredible here. Things are happening. The scale is continuing to move over the weeks and then eventually months into the process and then just donating this, these

00;08;52;23 - 00;09;06;07
[Tommy Welling]
awesome pieces of clothing, these these cool suits. It was sort of on to, yeah, so many, like thousands of dollars worth of worth of old clothes that, you know, he was like, These are never going to fit again.

00;09;06;07 - 00;09;20;27
[Tommy Welling]
I don't ever want to to even try to live into this old version of myself right here. I'm going to kick the door down on this whole thing, and I'm going to give these to somebody else. And so that was cool, and that was just part of his life, his like, his transformation right there.

00;09;21;10 - 00;09;39;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. So he popped up recently on the News Feed and said hashtag A.V. My endocrinologist. So if you're listening in this conversation, you've had these conversations with your doctor about metformin, you're on metformin. It's been offered to you even if you have PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, metformin is one of the typical treatment options in the beginning.

00;09;39;21 - 00;09;58;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And you know, he says, you know, I watched my endocrinologist walk endocrinologist walks in today and says, Holy Moly, you don't need me anymore. I was so proud and thankful. Not only that she said she is actually recommending you and I, Tommy and our podcast, which, yeah, ordered me to her clients that don't seem to be improving

00;09;58;07 - 00;10;11;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
. And that's where it came from with Dr. Fong's realization of being in a virologist and seeing these treatments that weren't getting his patients any better. Right, right. So she even said this is a quote from his analogies. It's simple.

00;10;11;08 - 00;10;25;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Just stop eating. And he has been completely released from his endocrinologist, and he gives us a shout out. And big thanks to us. And I'm just so grateful, Robert, that you heard the message you bought in.

00;10;25;21 - 00;10;26;24
[Tommy Welling]
And you literally.

00;10;27;04 - 00;10;42;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Are a completely different person on a completely different path now. And that is the reason you and I started this, Tommy, because that's what fasting has done for us. And we're going to get back into the unpacking of metformin and berberine here in a second, but just really, really cool to see.

00;10;42;11 - 00;10;57;28
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, absolutely. But you know, from his endocrinologist perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if she was so surprised because she sees these types of transformations so seldomly right within the patient population. It's just it's just not normally part of the equation.

00;10;57;28 - 00;11;10;21
[Tommy Welling]
And that's how it was when I used to ask physicians about this. Like, Can't, can't these problems just be fixed? If if the weight comes off, a lot of times they say, Well, yeah, but it just doesn't very often happen.

00;11;10;21 - 00;11;22;25
[Tommy Welling]
And that's that's the issue. So understanding that it is possible and there are steps to take to actually get there, I think is incredibly empowering. And and that's why I wanted to have this conversation.

00;11;24;04 - 00;11;34;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So this brings me back to the conversation that I had with my dad, you know, when he originally bought into the challenge a couple of years ago, and this is very early on before we even started doing some of these programs and.

00;11;35;04 - 00;11;36;00
[Tommy Welling]
You know, guiding.

00;11;36;00 - 00;11;54;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
People through the process of how to reverse blood sugar related issues, how to decrease your blood pressure, how to decrease your inflammation, how to literally get your health back, which is what fasting did for us. But my dad's HbA1c and he was on 17 medications, and I won't go into the whole story, we do an entire episode

00;11;54;26 - 00;12;14;21
[Dr. Scott Watier]
on my dad's story and his journey. If you have that 5.5 to 5.7 A1, see, you're going to be elevated like right at the risky stage. And then from 5.7 to plus six to 6.5, you're going to be in that pre-diabetes metabolic syndrome type stage where you're going to see the blood numbers ticking up over the years

00;12;14;21 - 00;12;29;29
[Dr. Scott Watier]
. The cholesterol, the the triglycerides, the blood pressure, those types of things. You might have some alterations in your in your liver enzymes and your kidney function, enzymes and whatnot. But then when you get over that 6.5 number, you know, now you're in the in the diabetic range and that this becomes a reality, right?

00;12;30;00 - 00;12;44;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So it's been cool to see that I been able to log into my dad's portal and over the years. So his agency was up in the nines and then that was on 120 years of insulin. 17 medications, multiple blood sugar medications.

00;12;44;01 - 00;12;58;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
He was on, you know, a high dose metformin. And even with the medication, that number was not coming down. So then fasting began, and this comes to the point of the question. He was like, Well, what do I do about my medications?

00;12;58;26 - 00;13;18;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So on days that you're fasting? Then your blood sugar is going to be pushed down due to the blood showing blood sugar lowering medications, hypoglycemia is a concern for diabetics because it has been given to them in the eye in the light of it being a fearful thing like you really need to watch out about this, right

00;13;18;03 - 00;13;30;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
? You have, yeah, yeah, you know, that kind of thing. Hypoglycemia does not happen normally without diabetic lowering medications or some rare tumor. We've said this before some insulin, some insulin producing tumor. Right now, this is type two diabetics you're talking about.

00;13;30;27 - 00;13;42;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So when you start fasting, it's like, Well, what do I do? How do I manage? Do I just not take my medication that day? And you and I are never going to tell you the listener to stop taking their medication right?

00;13;42;02 - 00;13;57;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But I will tell you that that's what my dad did is on the days that he started doing is longer fast. He didn't take the medications because his body didn't need it. He didn't need it. Hmm. And that's where I feel like berberine can come in as a support mechanism for, let's say, 60 to 90 days to

00;13;57;03 - 00;14;16;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
really help add some substantial support in terms of balancing out those physiological processes. That isn't going to end up with you being in the place that you're stuck having. Metformin is your only option, and we'll unpack some of those side effects here compared to what berberine can do.

00;14;16;20 - 00;14;25;20
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then again, it's a short term solution for a long term goal. Where metformin is a is just kind of the new normal, so to speak.

00;14;25;20 - 00;14;44;08
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, yeah. And like a lot of people who who start fasting, who who send us a message or who ask the question like coming into a challenge like, is this going to be OK for me to do? It's because they've already tried fasting, but with the blood sugar lowering medication, they've they've found that they've had to break

00;14;44;08 - 00;14;59;00
[Tommy Welling]
their fast because they they didn't know that there was any other way to kind of do it. So I just had to break my fast. So I must not be fasting, so I must not be able to. Fast is kind of like the mental progression that happens right there.

00;14;59;06 - 00;15;13;16
[Tommy Welling]
And then you can quickly just eliminate fasting as as one as your your potential solution for this issue, even though you know you might have 40 or 80 or 100 plus pounds that you need to lose. And if you did lose it, you could.

00;15;13;16 - 00;15;21;00
[Tommy Welling]
You could probably fix a lot of these issues that are going on, but you don't know how to get there because you're you're painted into a corner at that point.

00;15;21;12 - 00;15;37;00
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And the number one thing is lose weight. Eat healthier, right? Yeah. As well as OK, yeah, you can use metformin to help balance the blood sugar. So let's unpack what metformin is, what berberine is. It's it's a supplement or a nutraceutical versus metformin, which is a pharmaceutical.

00;15;37;10 - 00;15;56;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, and unpack the side effects. And Tommy, I'll have you do the side effects of berberine, but the side effects of metformin and what the risk reward is. And then the cool thing is, is that berberine of metformin act in a very similar physiological way, and metformin is very complex, so it acts in the liver to lower

00;15;56;01 - 00;16;15;20
[Dr. Scott Watier]
glucose production. It acts on the gut to increase glucose utilization and increase the GLP one pathway, which is insulin sensitivity, which is the good thing. We don't want insulin resistance, which leads to diabetes and all the comorbidities and complications of metabolic syndrome and heart diseases, and all of the things that come with being a pre-diabetic or a

00;16;15;20 - 00;16;31;22
[Dr. Scott Watier]
diabetic over the years. So at a molecular level, we're going to be looking at the mitochondria and the respiratory chain in the liver. But really, there's these two different pathways in the body, the AMPK pathway and the the amateur pathway.

00;16;31;22 - 00;16;53;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So lowercase mTOR pathway. And we want to be focusing on which metformin and berberine do, which is stimulating the AMPK pathway, which is going to increase insulin sensitivity in the long term. So when we're looking at the difference between these two, you know, these are two sides of the metabolism equation, right?

00;16;53;17 - 00;17;13;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So I'll unpack this. We'll go over the the the side effects time and then we'll talk about, have you unpack the berberine side, right? So. Yeah, AMPK pathway detects that our energy is down right. And then we have a deficiency in energy and it stimulates the oxidation of fatty acids in the muscle and liver, improving insulin resistance

00;17;13;12 - 00;17;28;15
[Dr. Scott Watier]
. So that's a good thing. And glucose entry into the muscle, which inhibits your triglycerides. So perfect. Our growth rates are high. Cholesterol is high, good cholesterol is lower, bad cholesterol is high, etc., etcetera. Blood pressure's high. Those are some of the the things that we'll see kind of part of the things in the equation.

00;17;29;00 - 00;17;45;16
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Overactivation of the tau pathway, which is what happens when you eat right and you consume. It's a an anabolic pathway, which is a building pathway, and it leads to insulin resistance, diabetes, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and among other diseases. So we want to be with fasting.

00;17;45;16 - 00;18;03;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We can decrease the amount of mTOR. Times that we stimulate them, talk, we can increase. The AMPK pathway with fasting, and that is actually what berberine and metformin do, is they stimulate the AMPK pathway, which is a positive thing.

00;18;03;01 - 00;18;23;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
However, metformin comes with a list of risks, which is the most common. Ones are lactic acidosis, diarrhea, nausea, nausea and vomiting, vomiting, flatulence, villa and decreased vitamin B12, which can lead to anemia. So there's a lot of words in there, so I want to practice a couple of Estonia.

00;18;23;26 - 00;18;39;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Is weakness literally getting weak? So if you're told that you need to go exercise more and get it put out more energy, get the medication is actually causing less energy through vitamin B12 pathways, which can lead to anemia and also anemia.

00;18;40;08 - 00;18;57;10
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Then you're actually kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, never mind. The common ones are abdominal discomfort, diarrhea, decreased appetite, low back pain, muscle pain and cramping sleepiness. Then you've got anxiety, cold sweat, coma, confusion, depression, dizziness.

00;18;57;10 - 00;19;19;09
[Dr. Scott Watier]
These are some of the more less common ones to increase hunger, sweating, seizures, shakiness. They even this death on here not to be, not to be, you know, spouting fear tactics here. But if you had. An option to get the same positive effect, right, so lactic acidosis is a buildup of lactic acid in your body if you're

00;19;19;09 - 00;19;31;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
not getting enough oxygen right, so anemia not carrying enough oxygen through your bloodstream. The all of these things can be a side effect in that form it. Now, I don't know about you, but a lot of the people I talked to my dad, these are not things that are going over with.

00;19;32;08 - 00;19;46;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It's like, Oh, go home and read this. Well, I don't know a lot of people that actually do that. So juxtaposing this right, the benefit metformin does have a physiological benefit of stimulating AMPK pathway compared to what berberine does with its side effects.

00;19;47;21 - 00;19;50;16
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, I think there's going to be some authors here in just a moment.

00;19;50;26 - 00;20;19;05
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And like the side effect list of berberine is diarrhea, constipation, gas and upset stomach. So it's it's a lot shorter of a list, for sure. And you know, to to dove into some of the research articles and to see that the positive effects of burbles is is oftentimes as great or greater than the effects of metformin

00;20;19;05 - 00;20;44;22
[Tommy Welling]
on those key blood markers on blood pressure on triglycerides, on the LDL HDL fasting glucose, too. To see that and to go well, there are substantial chance for for improvement here with something that has a much, much lower toxicity level is is incredibly empowering to use as a as a supplemental tool, you know, during during a weight

00;20;44;22 - 00;20;46;18
[Tommy Welling]
loss, on a fasting journey, that's for sure.

00;20;46;29 - 00;20;55;10
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. And this is a short term thing too, right? So a couple of the studies that you're referencing, Tommy and I'll actually list off some of the benefits here is efficacy of berberine in patients with type two diabetes.

00;20;55;24 - 00;21;16;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
This is published in the journal Metabolism 20 May of 2008. There's also the metformin and berberine, two versatile drugs and treatment of common metabolic diseases. I don't like the terminology drugs there. It's a nutraceutical, not a pharmaceutical oncology target 2018 February nine, 2018, and there's a bunch more positive studies out there about what berberine is.

00;21;16;17 - 00;21;29;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
The only concern is that that digestive change and that really comes from you can think about this you've ever used creatine in weightlifting. There's a loading like got to be sensitive with creatine, like you got a start and kind of build up your tolerance.

00;21;29;12 - 00;21;48;20
[Dr. Scott Watier]
If your digestive does, digestive changes do happen. So the same thing is with Burberry, you know, so berberine up to 15 hundred milligrams a day. So 500 mg one to three times a day. And the supplement that I personally have used and I'm currently using because I'm going through kind of a testing protocol almost like being a

00;21;48;20 - 00;22;05;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
little guinea pig right now, and we're going to share those results with you coming up in the next couple of months here and. The cool thing is, is that you can take the berberine slowly, like you don't have to start with going all the way up to the the highest amount that shows a benefit.

00;22;05;20 - 00;22;17;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So you can actually start with saying 580 mg once a day. And then right now I'm taking 500 mg two times a day. I've never had any digestive changes with it, but your body will adapt to it and those symptoms should decrease.

00;22;18;08 - 00;22;32;15
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And the cool thing was in some of the studies where they did find some of those gastrointestinal changes, just lowering the dose a bit was still very effective on those key markers, but then took away the gastrointestinal upset.

00;22;32;27 - 00;22;43;12
[Tommy Welling]
So it's it's there's there's so much promise there. It's just really cool to see that there there is another option to to kind of help support that, that journey.

00;22;43;25 - 00;22;55;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So what are some of the benefits in the stacks? Because we pulled out? I mean, Tommy, I mean, holy moly, like you went in and pulled out a bunch of the stats and you sent me these over and I was like, OK, there's like 75 bullet points, right?

00;22;55;09 - 00;23;12;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Just from a couple of the articles that we polled, you know, knowing that now the mechanism is the same. We've talked about this side effects and the potential side effects, but then the benefits are huge in that berberine seems to have additional benefits that metformin does not write, as well as some of the stats from some of

00;23;12;19 - 00;23;14;18
[Dr. Scott Watier]
these studies is just really cool to see.

00;23;15;06 - 00;23;36;15
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, it absolutely is. So you have a lowering of HbA1c fasting and postprandial glucose, like after actually after breaking our fasts, after eating seven to 11% decrease in a matter of of weeks, not months to. And and these effects come on fairly, fairly quickly through the process.

00;23;36;15 - 00;23;51;19
[Tommy Welling]
And you have a lowering of of LDL LDL-C just non HDL cholesterol. You have up to a 45% reduction between humans and rat studies across a matter of two to three months.

00;23;52;21 - 00;24;13;00
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So rat a tat tat here, lowering A1 c lowering fasting glucose, lowering postprandial glucose, meaning post-meal, which means your income sensitivity has gone up. Decreasing blood pressure has an effect of anti heart failure, anti hypertension, anti hyperlipidemia so anti high blood pressure, so lowering blood pressure, anti increase lipids to lower cholesterol.

00;24;13;05 - 00;24;36;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
The The Bad one right air quotes bad cholesterol increasing decreasing resistance anti arrhythmias because that was something that we saw with potential heart complications with the metformin side of things. So just overall. A really cost benefit ratio here, comparing the two, encouraging everyone that you do have an option and that we when we in the clinical side

00;24;36;24 - 00;24;53;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
of things, you know what the clinics that I work with, we are non narcotic, nonsurgical based pain relief centers. one of the things that we say is you can always go and have the surgery. But let's try to do a few things first before you eventually have it, because then you can't undo it, and that's typically what

00;24;53;23 - 00;25;10;09
[Dr. Scott Watier]
we see in these patients is that their functionality goes up, but their pain level only decreases incrementally post knee replacement, so they still end up with the same pain level or similar pain level. But they do have more strength and functionality, but that's not what a lot of people have knee surgery for.

00;25;10;09 - 00;25;22;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It's to reduce the pain. So just looking at that cost benefit that you do have an option, I always like to say, Well, let's try this first and we can always then introduce a pharmaceutical or a procedure, right?

00;25;22;07 - 00;25;37;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So really cool to see that the studies and the efficacy of berberine are starting to become exposed or brought to light. And a lot of these studies you mentioned to me are not coming from the US. They're coming from overseas, they're coming from China, they're coming from Japan, they're coming from the UK.

00;25;38;12 - 00;25;56;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Because here in the states, we rely heavily on one of only two countries in the world that has pharmaceutical ads on local TV, right? Like they're literally marketing into our homes. So we want to make sure that we have options on reversal of these things and not just management of the symptoms while the disease just continues to

00;25;56;04 - 00;25;56;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
process.

00;25;57;02 - 00;26;14;19
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, it's it's it's cool. I'm glad you brought up that perspective because Burberry has been used for literally thousands of years in other countries. There's there's so much anecdotal data, but it's nice to see in the past few decades actually putting some rigorous science to it and starting to go, OK, well, what?

00;26;14;19 - 00;26;28;23
[Tommy Welling]
What is happening here? Why is it working? How safe is this over over long periods of time? And might there be a different solution for folks who who are battling with insulin resistance? Weight loss resistance can't get the weight off.

00;26;29;01 - 00;26;37;04
[Tommy Welling]
Starting to see those numbers, like we've alluded to several times, you know, to start to tick up what else can be done to actually get at the problem here?

00;26;37;26 - 00;26;59;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, just one more stat I want to share. It was a decreased 31, 36 and 45% decrease in overall lipid lowering effects of berberine sound more attractive than those conventional lipid lowering drugs because of its low toxicity. And a lot of the research that we saw Tommy, those we had this low toxicity thing come up where berberine

00;26;59;28 - 00;27;14;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
acted similarly, had less side effects and didn't have any toxic load on the body. So to wrap up today's conversation, really, the last thing is really other ways you can stimulate the AMPK pathway, right? So fasting, obviously is the fasting podcast.

00;27;14;26 - 00;27;15;19
[Tommy Welling]
Blood sugar related.

00;27;15;19 - 00;27;34;00
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Health building framework that we want to continue to unpack over the weeks to months. Here is, you know, calorie restriction and fasting. Fasting is the easiest way to get into our own caloric deficit. We're not saying that calories are king, but we do need to take into the hormonal side of things the insulin, the leptin side as

00;27;34;00 - 00;27;47;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
well, which fasting also taps into. So that's one way. And then, you know, high intensity exercise is another. Berberine is on the list of supplements that can also do this right. We're going to do an entire nother podcast just on supplementation.

00;27;47;12 - 00;28;02;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We've got a lot of questions about it. High any oxidants foods. And then also cold therapy. So like cryotherapy, cold, cold submersion, cold baths, ice baths, those types of things as well.

00;28;03;04 - 00;28;16;10
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, and I feel like I would be remiss to to point out the fact that just. Leveling up your own fasting is his one of those ways to kind of dial up, yes, dial up the volume.

00;28;16;10 - 00;28;23;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Obviously didn't say that. Clearly, AMP, one of the easiest ways to stimulate MBK is through fasting.

00;28;23;11 - 00;28;39;10
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. So wherever you are in your fasting level, when you're fasting, journey right now, getting to the next level like getting a little bit more weight off, getting a little more comfortable with your fasting interval and getting disciplined, setting your own fasting timer.

00;28;39;16 - 00;28;57;17
[Tommy Welling]
And you know, if you can't break through that kind of intermittent fasting kind of level, consider joining the challenge because we what we do is we take a lot of people from the beginner and the kind of intermediate stages, and we we get them leveled up so that they can take that and push further into their own

00;28;57;17 - 00;29;10;18
[Tommy Welling]
fasting journey to start seeing new results. It's just it's a really cool process. And I love the fact that, like Robert, looking back over the last six months seeing that sort of transformation happening and it all started within a challenge.

00;29;11;05 - 00;29;26;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, I mean, we've had berberine and metformin on our list of things to talk about, just like weight loss medications. And we have this running list of podcast topics based off questions and research and really just trying to continue to move the needle right and support the fasting lifestyle.

00;29;26;19 - 00;29;35;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And one of the coolest things is that there's lines right up with the start of the challenge because one of the most common questions we get is I'm a diabetic or pre-diabetic or mom of medication. What do I do?

00;29;36;00 - 00;29;53;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Well, you have options and it is something that we definitely unpack and we can break through those plateaus in the seven day ramp up. So that's coming up. So as we always land the plane, Tommy, as we like to say with an action step for the episode one is going to be if you've been on the fence

00;29;53;21 - 00;30;07;21
[Dr. Scott Watier]
, if this answers that question for you, then we're going encourage you to sign up for the challenge. WW Everybody Fasting for life dot com forward slash live click the link is a registration page, as all the frequently asked questions has the button to to sign up.

00;30;08;09 - 00;30;26;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Give you some some testimonials or see some of that as well. And then if you are looking for additional support before the challenge starts, you can also check out the Resources tab. We have a fast start guide, which is six simple steps to put one meal a day fasting into your life, as well as an insulin assessment

00;30;26;27 - 00;30;45;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
if you're new to the concept of insulin resistance. This will give you some insights of subjective insight into whether or not this is part of your concern or why you're trying to lose the weight or get healthy. So Tommy, specifically for the berberine question, we're going to get this question.

00;30;45;03 - 00;30;56;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We're going to put a link so you can get the one that I typically use. There's two different companies there. You'll see a link to that if you are wanting to look into that further. But Tommy, as you wrap up today, any final thoughts?

00;30;57;00 - 00;31;12;14
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, final thought would be like, just just get started. So if you've never fasted before? Set a timer and and just give yourself an eating window to get started. And if you're if you've already been doing that for a little while or you've you've tried out in the past, then take it a step further.

00;31;12;14 - 00;31;26;04
[Tommy Welling]
Get the fast start guide out before asking for Ofcom and and get started with Ohman. Look at putting putting your nutrition into one meal a day and see what kind of beneficial effects that has on your insulin on the scale.

00;31;26;10 - 00;31;31;07
[Tommy Welling]
And with with your own mindset to push past into the next step of your fasting journey.

00;31;31;25 - 00;31;36;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Love it. Absolutely love it, Tommy. As always, thank you for the conversation, sir. Thank you for your time and we'll talk soon.

00;31;36;14 - 00;31;52;00
[Tommy Welling]
Thank you. Bye. So you've heard today's episode, and you may be wondering, where do I start? Head on over to be fasting for life dot com and sign up for our newsletter, where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life.

00;31;52;23 - 00;32;07;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Why are you there? Download your free fast start guide to get started today. Don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to leave us a five star review, and we'll be back next week with another episode of Fasting for Life and.

Ep. 112 - The Complexity Of Metformin Vs Berberine | What Are The Side Effects, Risks, And Rewards? | Free Intermittent Fasting Plan for OMAD

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