Ep. 34 - Lean Muscle and Adipose Tissue, Build muscle while burning fat, Fat free adipose tissue? | OMAD, Macros, Refeeding | Cardio, Aerobic exercise, Calorie deficit | Free Intermittent Fasting Plan

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Hello, I'm Dr. Scott Watier, and I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast, and this podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve. Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design. We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned along the way.

Hey, everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott Watier. I'm here, as always, am a good friend and colleague, Tommy Welling. Good evening to you, sir. Hey, Scott. How are you doing? Fantastic. I am ready to dive in to the topic tonight.

I am, as always, excited. I feel like I repeat myself over and over again, but I just had a DEXA scan done and got some body composition.

And the study that we're going to talk about tonight and the life, the action step into real life application kind of kind of hit me close to the core a little bit. So I think I know I'm going to have some good, actionable stuff to do out of tonight's episode. So I really want to dive in and unpack it for everybody because I think it's going to be really important.

Yeah, I like how you use that phrase to right there close to the core. Are you alluding to are you alluding to some visceral, visceral fat. Yeah.

Might have a little little bit of visceral fat left over. Lost a bunch. I actually said to the lady who did the test, I was like, who and what, what did this look like 40 plus pounds ago? I was I was almost kind of like, man, I'm I'm I'm I'm glad that it's this. But we'll share we'll share some numbers in a minute. But you found the study and you brought it up and you were like, we need to talk about this.

And so just from like a thirty thousand foot view, if we're going to just kind of open the discussion when it comes to losing fat, not necessarily losing weight, but losing fat and building lean muscle, which is really most people's desire, if they want to look better, feel better and more importantly, does have better health outcomes. Right. So what does it look like to really start to unpack this for everyone?

Yeah, I feel like this article kind of spoke to me because over the years I had I've I've always pushed through the research looking for an optimal way or a better way to drop more fat while I was increasing more lean muscle tissue, getting stronger in the gym. That was always a really important thing to me. But at the same time, I wanted to to drop that. I always had more fat than I wanted. So I was always trying to do both at the same time. So I would look for studies that would point me in the right direction. Should I do more reps or should I do higher weight? Should I diet at the same time? Should I diet separately from from when I'm going into the gym?

I need to refeed post exercise. Do I need to increase my calories in my workout on my macros?

How do I know what is the what is the magic formula.

It's cool that you say that. And I hopped in there too because I was like, well, wait a minute, whoa. We can make this way simpler. Like one of our things is, you know, young kids, businesses, wives, families, like just lots of moving parts these days. So simplification for me is like like one of the things that sold me on this lifestyle. Yeah.

It was like, wait, what I have to do is what I have to do is eat one meal a day.

What so let's start with unpacking the the new terminology that's been kind of unearthed in the the study was was done by the Obesity Society and it's in the Journal of Obesity and it was from March of twenty nineteen. So it's a more recent study and it's referring to a new term that I had never heard before.

Yeah. And this is this is there's a few things in the study that I've I've never seen before in my research and looking for these kind of answers. And so, honestly, it just it blew my mind and and I had to send it over to you immediately. So what we're talking about here is what's called the fat free component of adipose tissue. So adipose tissue hit the brakes. What adipose tissue? B being fat tissue has a weight. So it's it's mostly fat, OK, but it's not all fat. There is what we call fat free components to the adipose tissue.

Did I know I'm sorry. I was a little playful there, but that blew my mind. Like when you told me that I was like, excuse me, wait, fat isn't just fat, right?

So we normally visualize it. If you overdo has just kind of a glob of fat and most of us have passed around that five pound big yellow blob of fat. Right. And yeah. Right, right. You lost five pounds. Here it is. Look, it's disgusting, right? So there's it's mostly fat, but there is a fat free component as well. And that's that's where the crux of the matter lies, because there's changes in both as we as we go through diet and fat loss. And it's important for how we interpret the results of of studies like like one. Look at the results of resistance or cardio plus dieting and how those affected our body composition over time.

So it's interesting because as we've taken people into the fasting for life, kind of like Sfeir, like people that have been with us for a while, one meal a day becomes a new way of life. We've got the testimonials of people reversing diabetes and losing all this weight.

And really it's just getting people to get a win or two under their belt and seeing that they can do it and kind of unearthing some of those myths and fears. But the majority of people out there, like you and I in the past were on the roller coaster of diet, exercise, diet, exercise, eat less, move more, eat less, move more, eat less, move more.

And that was the really impactful thing about this study, is that there's a really specific outcome of one of these three groups, if you want to unpack that, like that was what we should be focusing on when combining that with one meal a day or intermittent fasting is going to be. It's it's incredible.

Yeah. So on most of these studies, when they report the results, they all look pretty similar. Usually what we see is that diet results in some amount of weight loss diet plus cardio or additional aerobic exercise results and usually a little bit more, and then usually diet plus resistance exercise results in at least that much or maybe even a little bit more fat loss. But then they usually measure changes in skeletal muscle or they try to at least at the same time. So we know it's important to maintain skeletal muscle as we as we get older. And, you know, in most cases, we'd like to to increase skeletal muscle as much as possible. We know that's going to positively increase our metabolism. So when they report the results, most of these studies still end up showing a decrease in skeletal muscle or in lean muscle mass tissue, which is what people want.

They want to lose weight and get lean and they go to the gym and they build they want to build muscle.

Right. They don't just want to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. But if you if you pour through these kind of studies, what you're going to find is that in a lot of cases, maybe even the majority of cases, they're going to show all groups lost lean tissue as well as fat tissue. And so it becomes an interpretation that we're almost trying to get the least negative effect whenever we're dieting by increasing our resistance workout and and doing weight training.

Cool. So the three groups were just so we're I'm still shocked at the study, which is really cool because there's definitely more research that needs to be done with this new proposed model. And this the study was reported by Heymsfield at all. And it was proposed that there is a fat cell, like you said, that globulin that globule, like you can just envision a fat cell, right? Like that jiggly fat cell. Eighty five percent of it is fat tissue and 15 percent of it is actually what's called that fat free component. So really, the calculation of that 15 percent in these studies has caused them to go back and look at all of the studies that you've been referring to. You're right.

So you've got three categories. You've got the people that are low and slow, the cardio killers, the ones that are out by cycling here in Texas for 20 to 40 miles on a hot 100 day on a Saturday morning. I'm like, oh, my gosh, just hit me with the car on the way by. That just seems miserable to me. You get the people on the treadmills. I've done it. You've done it. So we're speaking from I mean, heck, I rode two and a half million meters on a rowing machine in like 18 months. So like just hour, hour and a half day on the road machine, there is health benefit to aerobics.

But back to the point aerobic category. And then you have your. Combined categories of Arabic plus resistance, and then you have your resistance category in all three groups had the same caloric deficit, right, that five to seven hundred and fifty calorie a day deficit. So when you're fasting, especially with one meal a day, we recommend 40 to 50 percent of your caloric intake. Lower carb, higher fat, higher protein. So, I mean, if you're looking at those numbers, then getting that five hundred to seven hundred and fifty deficit for any body that is doing intermittent or one meal a day is going to be pretty easy to obtain.

Oh, yeah. And most people doing one meal a day are going to be hitting a a larger calorie deficit than that. So more benefit, right? Even more benefit. Not to mention the boost in metabolism like we've talked about in the past, as well as a better hormonal environment, growth hormone.

Yup. I was just thinking about hormones when you said that it was like growth hormone goes up.

Absolutely adrenaline. So you're feeling more energetic and you're you're in a more anabolic state. You're ready to grow lean muscle tissue. While you're fasting, as opposed to smaller calorie restriction like that, but then take it a step further so all those groups found similar results as far as their fat loss goes, and that's fine. But what they also measured was how did their lean mass tissue actually change as well? And so when they went back in and accounted for that change in the fat free component of the adipose tissue, that 15 percent.

Right. So that the part of the fat tissue, that's not fat.

Correct. When it had been previously reported, they mistakenly interpreted it as a decrease in muscular tissue. But so when they when they took this into account, what they found was that the group doing actual resistance exercises, that that negative effect was reversed and it even flipped to the positive side in many studies.

So if we look at the numbers that just put numerical values, so if we look at the numbers in lean mass change. Right. So that's that's the stuff people want. They want to look lean. They want to see muscles.

They want to feel comfortable in a bathing suit like all the real life applications, you know, the all three groups, the robot group had a negative two point seven kilogram difference. And one thing we'll mention is that all of these groups in this study with this new proposed model of eighty five percent. Of one globule of fat, one fat cell, one adipose tissue sample is 85 percent fat, 15 percent lean, all of the groups had the exact same total loss over the study.

Correct. It was at nine kilograms, if I remember correctly.

Yeah. Seven to nine and nine. Yeah. Mean, it makes sense.

It's all similar amount of time working out, similar amount of time of activity, similar amount of five hundred and fifty caloric deficit right per day, same study length.

But the aerobic group had a so just the low and slow, the cardio grinders, the stair climbers, the, the treadmill warriors'. Right. The, the walkathons, all of that was that was the group that lost the most amount of lean tissue, which is two point seven kilograms during the study, the combined group, which was resistance and aerobic. Right. And that group did twice as much exercise, which is crazy because their workout time was twice as long. I was like, I don't want to be picked for that study group. Right. That was one point seven kilograms lost and then the resistance group was one. But if you factor in that 15 percent and actually becomes a positive point, three kilograms gained of lean muscle. And that blew my mind.

Yeah, because, you know, that's generally not reported in studies like this. We generally don't see a positive effect on skeletal muscle. There are almost always reporting a smaller decrease over the study duration for the resistance group. So so this is huge. And this this information can be applied to so many studies like this. And so when you're when you're looking at an individual study, you may not be able to tell what the actual difference is because of this new information, but it's important to know that adding resistance exercise to your fasting plan, your fat loss goals, your you're not just you're not just running a losing battle on gaining lean muscle tissue. You can gain muscle tissue by doing resistance exercises while you're losing fat.

That's that's the important message. Yeah. So take home because I'm the cool thing about the study was that obviously it's newer. So this new model has not been proven over and over and over again.

But it makes sense when you put all these different pieces together and it says that if the estimate of eighty five fifteen needs to be changed or altered slightly, there is investigation into the reliability of the measurement and they're going to use DEXA to accurately determine and account for the fat free adipose tissue. So that lean component of that fat of that fat tissue. But regardless of that, I like to think that that is true just based off of this, and look forward to finding more research articles like it and seeing what this group actually does, because they do have some work that's unpublished at the moment. But regardless, take home is resistance training, like you said, trumps all of the other type. So adding in that 30 to 40 minutes of resistance training, getting your heart rate up right into a healthy range, and then combining that with the intermittent fasting lifestyle, the one meal a day fasting lifestyle, which we really recommend for most people that have insulin resistance or have had trouble losing weight or have done the yo yo throughout their life or, you know, plan their life around the next event.

And I'm going to I'm going to crash diet. I'm going to gain I'm going to crash diet. I'm going to gain. I'm going to go to the holidays. I'm going to gain. I'm going to do New Year's resolutions and start the process all over again.

Right. I mean, really, three to four, five workouts a week, you know, three of those being resistance training. And we're not talking high level cross fit athlete stuff like just some bands, some body weight, some free weights. Band is the simplest thing you could possibly do. And you're going to get the most bang for your buck in terms of losing fat, because you're going to have that time in between meals set.

And then you're also going to, like you said, flip the reporting on a lot of these studies and have a lean muscle tissue gain during that process as well.

Yeah, I mean, that's that's huge. And and that's would be greatly motivating for all of us. I mean, you know, most of us have done some form of resistance training. But to go into it, especially when you want to lose fat and you have other health goals involved and to think that you might be wasting your time or that you're going to be losing muscle mass anyway, that's I mean, that's that's starting off. And you're you have you have ankle weights going into the pool. I mean, you feel like you're being bogged down. And you get to get off the slow and the low and slow torture.

I just can never I just I don't know, it just wasn't for me like that. I'd get on the elliptical. And I mean, I know you've told your story and you spoken into it like, oh, I'll just go burn another three or four hundred calories. And we know that the aerobics thermodynamic change in that that the body's burning of those extra calories isn't a simple one plus one equals two equation.

Oh, right. There's so many more components of thermodynamic side of how your body burns the energy. And then those trackers and the calorie counters and all those things can be off greatly, you know, 30, 50, 70 percent. Really just simplifying it is is going to be empowering, like you said.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you when you go in there and you start doing the low and slow looking to burn an extra one hundred or two hundred calories, it's it's going it's not moving the needle like you're expecting and work off the choices you made or to prevent or to preempt the choices you're going to make. Yeah. It's it's not working like that. And look at the results of all the studies that were cited in this one in particular, showing that that's the greatest loss of of lean muscle tissue. That's exactly what we don't want. We want to preserve all of that. So, you know, if if if there's a Take-Home message here, I encourage you to take a look at the resistance training that you're doing now or maybe that you're not doing and add in, maybe even if it's 10, 15, 20 minutes a day, several times a week to preserve and even build some more of that lean muscle tissue that's going to get your your metabolism up. Our metabolic rate always goes up with our amount of lean muscle tissue and we're going to get much better results like that.

Yeah, yeah, and just to compound the action step, it would be if you aren't doing resistance training, let's say you're walking or running or doing a lot of cardio. I'm just going to encourage you to simply go to YouTube University and it's like Dr Google. So YouTube University, you can learn anything on YouTube and just put in beginner resistance, band training, and you will find thousands of, especially now thousands of virtual online 15, 20, 30 minute boot camps.

Now there's this thing floating around called seventy five day hard. It's like two forty five minute workouts a day, ten minutes of reading, no cheap meals, no alcohol, no carbs. Like you can imagine what's been created, but you can go on YouTube University and simply just put resistance training into your day to day. And it doesn't need to be something crazy, something simple. Start with a beginner and know that you are getting the best outcome possible because you are getting that lean muscle retention or even building while you're in the fat loss stage.

Combining that with fasting and the one meal a day is just it's yeah, I'm excited. And I'd gotten away from the resistance training and I you know, after the DEXA scan, I'm a it's time to it's time to get back on it. Great. Glad you're fired back up. I think everybody should be. Yeah. 100 percent. All right. So tell me anything else you want to wrap this one up now? I think set it all thankful if you guys are new to the Fasting for Life podcast. Go ahead to our website.

The Fasting for Life Dotcom, the fasting for Life Dotcom. You can download our Fast Start guide. Put in your email. It will zoom into your email box. It's a six step simple, one page actionable PDF that tells you exactly how to start putting fasting into your day to day life, regain the control gained some more simplicity. I can't tell you how impactful this has been for me over the last. It's been over a year now.

And then if you I we really encourage you guys to take advantage of the free mini master class that comes with that fast start guide. It's a twenty minute training. There's six individual videos. It walks you through each step, feel free to comment, feel free to review, share with a friend, family member, someone that needs to hear this information and tell me, as always, I appreciate you, sir, and we'll talk soon.

Thank you. So you so you've heard today's episode and you may be wondering where do I start?

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