Ep. 211 - Optimal walking for faster fat loss & better blood sugar and insulin control | Lowering HbA1c through meal & exercise timing | Making fasting easier by reducing cravings | Download Blueprint To Fasting For Fat Loss | Nutrisense CGM
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In this episode of the Fasting for Life podcast, Dr. Scott and Tommy delve into a study on post-meal walking's impact on blood sugar control. Emphasizing the significance of incorporating simple habits, like walking, into daily routines, they highlight the study's findings on the effectiveness of post-meal walks.
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Articles For Reference:
https://www.themovementsystem.com/blog/what-are-mets-metabolic-equivalents-for-exercise-explained
Fasting For Life Ep. 211 Transcript
Hello. I'm Dr. Scott Watier.
And I'm Tommy Welling.
And you're
listening to the Fasting for Life podcast.
This podcast is about using fasting
as a tool to regain
your health, achieve ultimate wellness,
and live the life you truly deserve.
Each episode is a short conversation
on a single topic
with immediate, actionable steps.
We cover everything from fat loss
and health and wellness
to the science of lifestyle design.
We started fasting for life because of how
fasting has transformed our lives
and we hope to share the tools
that we have learned along the way.
Everyone,
welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast.
My name's Mark Scott Warner, and I'm here
as always on good friend and colleague
Tommy Welling.
Happy New Year to you, sir.
And good afternoon.
Change In the introduction, the all on
your face was like, What I do, man.
Happy New Year. Yeah,
Happy New Year. I'm doing great.
How are you doing? Fantastic.
Everybody listening in.
Welcome to 2024
in the Fasting for Life podcast.
We have so many incredible things in store
and in the works for you and for us
and for programs
and this podcast coming up this year
that we are just incredibly excited
to start rolling that stuff out
as we hit the ground running,
coming off of a very successful challenge
with just incredible results
out of the middle of the holiday season.
yeah, so much positive feedback.
I just want to give everybody a shout out
that's been doing the work.
So if you're a new listener, welcome in.
If you're an OG,
you've been part of the fasting
for Life family or the fasting for life
lifestyle for a while now, no matter
where you are, beginner to expert,
beginning of your journey, your rock
in the maintenance fasting lifestyle.
Just kudos to you for sticking with it.
Doesn't have to be perfect,
but you're showing up if you're listening.
We just want to give you a shout out
saying that this year can be the year
that the big boulders move, that things
fall into place, that you can get
in, start the year at a different place
than you started previous years.
And we can just continue
to run this fasting for life lifestyle
of this fasting for life race together.
So if you're new, you want to learn
more about Tommy and I head back.
Episode one Give it a
Listen tells us the story of fasting
and how it transformed our lives.
geez. Thanks for for showing up again.
Typically January
we see a massive influx of new listeners,
so I'm just grateful for each
and every one of those subscribes
rates, reviews, downloads,
all of the stuff
that tells the podcast gods and goddesses
that we are doing something of value
and we are going to continue
to fight the obesity and blood sugar
epidemic that we have here in the States
and across the world.
One episode at a time.
Tommy So as we hop into the New Year,
new energy, just what
we're going to go back
to fasting foundations
and talk about some basics
with some new research though.
But before we do that,
we want to give a shout out
to one of the
our most favorite kind of reviews,
a five star review
that we just got recently.
Yeah, absolutely Love these.
And add in Jacksonville, Florida,
five stars said wonderful podcasts.
Done Tommy, you do an excellent job
with this topic there.
So sir.
Yeah thank you.
There are so many podcasts on fasting.
This is by far the best.
Thank you.
These guys
clearly put in the work to ensure
they deliver a clear and concise product.
Much appreciated.
Ed also goes on to say that
he travels long haul for work, recently
made a long trip and did that a little bit
differently this time.
Just water, black coffee,
a few element packets
and until I got to the hotel
and had a nice dinner
and this worked extremely well.
Less jetlag.
No intestinal issues, mental clarity
and just feeling different.
So congrats Ed, That's awesome.
Glad you're finding things
to make your fasting lifestyle stick
even when you're doing those long
travel bouts.
So keep up the good work
and thank you again for the review.
Yeah, absolutely. Man Well done.
Long hauler, right?
I mean, that's my complexity on a day
to day basis does not equal yours, sir.
So good job. Shout out to element as well.
You can head to the show notes
if you want to get a free sample pack
with any order that you place.
You mentioned elements.
Elements is what normal people call them,
but I always have to explain
what they are.
So I've gotten into the bad habit
of selling L, M and D their elements.
They're incredible.
They're part of my routine as well. Yeah.
All right.
I mean, let's get into today's
episode about fasting foundations
and things that we can do.
We want to really focus on setting
this year off with intentionality, right?
So last week
we talked about the statistics,
like a little mini State of the Union
when it comes to blood sugar and diabetes
and the massive undiagnosed
amount of people that are out there.
And we talked about the effect of time
restricted eating.
So ultimately with BRADSTOCK,
you know, just breaking it down as
we're talking about fasting. Right.
And what that does in terms of weight loss
and getting that weight off
and what that looks like.
So this article
that we're going to be talking about
today is an older article,
but it came up recently
because we were having a lot of questions
about exercise
outside of our coaching group
and inside
of the last couple of challenges.
So this article is really great
and it's in the Journal of Diabetes Care
and it's 315 minute bouts of moderate
Post-Meal walking significantly improves
at risk for impaired glucose tolerance.
The one thing that I love about this
conversation that we're going to have
today is we've had multiple conversations
about exercise and walking
and how to adopt the fasting lifestyle,
and we've done it most recently.
We've talked about walking in relation
to healthy individuals.
What I love about this study
is that this this data that comes out of
this is in the demographic that needs it
the most, that are the ones that are
at the highest risk or do already have
those elevated blood sugar numbers.
Right.
But they're not on blood
sugar lowering medications.
Right.
So this is a undiagnosed
we talked about last episode,
the approximately 80 million Americans
that are undiagnosed pre diabetics.
This is a look beneath the hood, right?
This is a hey, what's moving the needle
that I don't necessarily see on my six
month blood work or on my you know, my day
to day how I'm kind of feeling.
We want to really tap into that 1% better,
that law of compounding the magic
of tiny habits. Right.
Because with fasting,
a lot of folks can't just come to fasting
and just,
you know, not eat for three days.
Right? Like, that's not sustainable.
We want to begin with the end in mind.
So I love the conversation today because
this is going to be it's really cool.
It affirms what we already knew
and what we've talked about,
but it's in a category of folks
that really need it.
So if it works in this group, guess what?
It can work in prevention.
No matter where you are in the spectrum
of blood, sugar, weight, etc..
Yeah, I love
I love that word right there. Prevention.
That's exactly what I was thinking about,
which is just the fact that knowing
what's going on under the hood,
knowing that my blood sugar
leads to my insulin, which then leads to
if I'm in fat storage or fat burning mode.
So it's all connected
and we can learn from from people
who are in that at risk category.
And just the fact that we can understand
how to kind of move the important needles
before needing to go on insulin,
another blood sugar
lowering medication, which would be
that would be the goal at that point.
But it's even if you have £10 lose
or £50 lose, it's
also the goal to get the blood sugar
under control most of the time
so that I can
then lower insulin levels and spend
more time in fat burning mode
rather than fat storage mode.
So this is helpful no matter who you are
and no matter where you are
on that spectrum.
I like this because I haven't seen
any other studies that broke down
Post-Meal walking
and like actually looking at when
and how to break that down
for the most efficient use of your time
and for the benefits of what's
actually going on with your blood sugar,
like how to optimize that process,
which is, which is really cool
because I don't like to feel like
I might be wasting my time
because, you know,
like you only have so many hours each day
and I don't want to
just be walking around for it
for no particular reason
or I like to know that I'm getting
the biggest bang for my buck,
you know, the biggest ROI, biggest return
on that, that time that I'm spending
kind of reminds me of fasting, right?
You're getting the biggest bang
for your buck.
You're getting all the physiologic
benefits. You're in a deficit.
You're balancing out those hunger
cues, right?
So the importance of the blood sugar
control is that if we can get that area
under the curve, right,
so your blood sugar spikes,
just think like a bell curve.
Have you shaded in that area
under that curve, That's what we call area
under the curve
where blood sugar is elevated,
which then means
insulin will be elevated, which then means
you can't tap into the fat
burning that leads to bouts of fatigue
and hunger and craving cycles.
And we've done
episodes recently on hunger, hormones
and fasting with ADF, etc..
So what I love about this
is that this is doable for anybody
because of the population that was tested
and meaning
when you think about losing weight
or getting healthy, right,
especially this time of year
or New year, new you resolutions, Right.
Let's go eat less,
move more is still pretty rampant, right?
Calories in, calories out,
still pretty rampant, Right.
Well, get tracking and get working. So.
All right. Well, I guess I got to work out
five days a week.
I guess I got to
get on that cardio machine again
and burn those calories, right, Jim?
Yeah. Join the gym. gosh.
Gyms make up most of their money
this day in the first quarter of the year.
Right. The most sign ups.
And then there goes down by February.
So. Well, most of the new folks,
I should say.
So what I love about this
is that we're going to be looking
at the most bang for your buck.
Right.
So I'm just going to start by saying this.
I really don't enjoy taking walks.
My wife and I are different.
Like one of the things that she would
love to do and which means we'll be doing
it soon, is taking nightly walks
with the family.
So we've got three kids under seven.
So the idea of me going on a walk right
now is I'm carrying some riding device.
I've got one kid in one arm,
another kid that like skin, the knee
and a third one that's off,
you know, chasing a dog down green area.
Right. And I'm like, no,
this is not fun. Right?
So now that our little one
is getting older, I can actually envision
that this is going to become a real thing
because my wife loves walks.
I'm not a big walker, right?
I'm more of like,
Let me go do some weights and no pain,
no gain for the biggest bang for my buck.
Right. The reality
that didn't really move the needle.
So when we look at this walking,
when we're looking at this group
or the study, they were looking
at the difference between one large
at different times of day
versus three post-meal
Okay, so I like to call this chunking.
So if you said to me, Hey,
go take a 15 minute walk versus hey,
go walk for an hour, me
getting up to go and walk.
And I'm not saying it's difficult,
but I just don't enjoy it, right?
Yeah, like I've learned to enjoy it.
I'll put in a podcast, I'll be in
my thoughts, I'll listen to music,
things that boost dopamine, sunlight
I look forward to.
Yeah, it's
not like a version of self-care for me.
I do it with a very specific outcome.
It's yeah, it's like,
okay, I know this is good for me, right?
So breaking it up into smaller
bouts for me makes it more digestible.
And if you are in a higher BMI category
and you have joint pain, or if you do
get out of breath easily, then 15 minutes
like most of us can do 15 minutes, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And the cool thing is here
that I would like to extrapolate
the situation from three meals a day.
And you know, that's, that's
why they, they chose that for the,
for the experimental group.
So if you were doing two meals a day then
you could take that, that same 45 minutes
and split it up over those two meals
and maybe on an nomad day,
I could take that that same amount of time
and do somewhere between 15
and 45 minutes after my own mad meal.
But yeah, the cool thing is
what I just heard was flexibility.
Flexibility. Yeah.
And just the fact that knowing that
that I'm putting in the time
is moving the needle and it is, you know,
one of the easiest ways to get moving.
It's kind of what our body was designed to
do, like, you know, walk long distances,
something that we can fairly easily do,
but it does move the needle.
It does it does matter.
Like as far as what's going on
under the hood, blood sugar wise.
The other thing that I really liked
here was just the fact that they did
take that 45 minute bout
and put that at two different times
during the day as well
during the later morning hours
and then the the afternoon hours.
And so when we're actually breaking down
the data, we'll get to see kind of
how specific you can get
and how big of a difference
there is between those groups,
Right? Yeah.
And what I love about this is
this is tapping into this neat category,
this non exercise activity term
or genesis. Right?
This is the, you know, steps conversation
get your steps in.
Right.
Because we know that at a certain amount
it's not 10,000 somewhere between
So what the study was set up
was each protocol.
So was participants
completed three randomly ordered exercise,
protocol spaced four weeks apart.
And this was walking.
Each protocol comprised a 48 hour
stay in a hotel room calorimeter
with the first day
serving as a control day.
The difference between the area
under the curve for blood sugar versus
the control day versus
the protocol days was astounding.
It was so crazy
how much better it was on the days
that they were actually walking insane.
I was like, Wow.
So on the second day,
the non control day participants engage
in either one Post-Meal
walking for 15 minutes, right?
That three acts that we mentioned.
So for each meal or 45 minutes
of sustained walking at 10:30 a.m.
or 4:30 p.m..
And what I loved about
this is all the walking was done on
a treadmill at an absolute intensity
of three Mets. So.
So I'm like,
all right, well, let's define a mets.
Right?
So Mets are metabolic equivalents
for exercise explained.
So when you're thinking about three Mets
because I want to connect this
to the stats, right?
We're talking about
like a casual game of volleyball, right?
So you hit the ball,
somebody hits the ball back,
you take a few steps,
you swipe, you miss, right?
Somebody goes and picks up the ball,
you throw it back, you rotate, you serve.
Maybe you get a couple volleys
going. Yeah.
Where you're not running around
playing, you know, beach volleyball
or not out there sprinting.
Right? So soccer is like ten mets, right?
So it's like 300 to 370
calories burned for 30 minutes
where this 3.0 Mets
is really like a casual.
It's not high
intensity is what I'm getting at. Okay.
So it's walking.
We're probably a 20 minute mile
somewhere around there.
Just kind of your standard walking.
And, you know, all three of the groups
were also probably right around 4500 steps
was another thing that I like to kind
of equilibrate this with some of our other
conversations about stuff
because people talk a lot about steps.
Yeah, that's a good point, right?
So it's it's about three miles
per hour is about 3.5.
Matt So it's a little less than a 3.0 mile
per hour walk, right?
So about 4500
total steps broken up, either
into 1500 steps per 15 minute interval
or all at once
having that 45 minute
exercise bout either at the 10:30 a.m.
or 4:30 p.m.. Right. Yeah.
So when we're actually looking at the
control group versus the exercise group,
so regardless of which group,
you know, the participant ended up in,
they pretty much found somewhere
between a 15 to 30 point difference
in their blood sugar throughout the day,
depending on if it was an exercise day
or a control day,
which I thought is very, very important,
because even if we're not necessarily
getting to go on that walk
every single day
knowing that there's a big gap,
there's a big difference
in what's actually
happening under the hood, and that affects
what's going on, on the scale,
how my cravings are.
Have I been able to stick
with my fast recently and how is my sleep
in which we we know is very,
very determinant of our fasting results
and what's going on the scale
and our overall health too.
This is a big push for me
and for hopefully for everyone listening
that it's important
to get moving on any given day,
regardless of what time of day it is
or how you kind of break it down.
But like just getting moving
is really super important.
So the biggest takeaway
was that to your point,
walking in the morning,
great Post-Meal walking great.
They both significantly improve
that 24 hour glycemic control
relative to the day
where people didn't move.
But the post-meal was significantly
more effective than the 45 minutes
of sustained morning or afternoon walking.
Yeah. So maybe you're already a walker.
Maybe you're already getting 7000
steps day, right?
A simple shift, right?
Especially to that post afternoon
evening meal is where we see
the greatest effect,
which you were just mentioning sleep.
Which means then we decrease
that blood sugar spike for bed.
We're less snacky, we're less crazy,
we sleep better.
We don't bring in all of those
types of foods before we go to bed.
We have a better circadian rhythm.
We get a better night's sleep,
which means then our blood
sugar control can be even more efficient
that following day.
Because one of the things is,
is as we age, insulin secretion relative
to the increased resistance declines
as we get older, Right.
So anything that we can do
to increase the effectiveness of our blood
sugar control is something
that I want to start two decades ago.
Yeah, I never mind in my sixties
or my fifties
or my forties or my thirties,
like I should have been doing this
a long time ago
kind of thing. Like whoops did. No.
And that's why I want to give a shout out,
because what they used in the study was,
well they had everybody in the, in the,
in the 48 hour calorimeter measuring
everything that really cool control.
But they also had them wearing a CGM.
And I want to give a shout out
to nutrition to your tummy
because you and I are doing another bout
a consistent bout
because you had said this to me
before we recorded this episode, before
we ended 2023 and started to show for you.
Like the more I dial it
in, the more I want to
know, Right, right, Like I want to see it.
And this study was right.
Those measurables.
This study was really cool to show that,
especially in that area under the curve
that we had mentioned.
So the biggest effect
was after that meal in the evening.
So I want to give a shout out.
His nutrition is really changed
kind of my day to day.
And I know you mentioned it as well.
You wanted to get a little bit more
consistent before we start going into,
you know, getting our DEXA scans done
again and looking at our body composition.
And for me specifically, visceral, fat,
but nutrition that combines
cutting edge technology
and human expertise.
So you get the CGM,
which is the monitor, right.
And these people in the
study were wearing it
and then we've been wearing ours again.
And it's just incredible
because the visual feedback
that you get which tracks
your glucose levels in real time, right?
You put it on the back of your arm,
you set it and forget it.
It lasts for 14 days.
Then you got the fancy app.
You bring your phone next to the thing
big that a boom boom,
it scans and then you visualize your data.
You can log your meals, you can run
experiments and like, how do I say this?
Doubting Thomas was my nickname
growing up.
So it'd be like,
you need to show me the point.
I think that's right.
It doesn't my nickname too.
So I just we just transfer personalities
across the room.
So this really allows you in real time
to see how you're doing with the decisions
you're making.
So this walking thing for me
has been mind blowing because it's like,
man, really three times a day, like,
you know, I preface this in the beginning,
not loving the walk, but it's like two.
How silly could that sound, right
when I say it out loud
and now I can see the improvement
that it makes.
It's like a no brainer.
So I love the fact you had to nutrition
start io forward slash fasting for life.
It gets you $30 off in one month free
dietitian support
and I'm going to encourage you to sign up
for a six or 12 month subscription.
Tommy, you and I just reengaged.
We were using it for months
on different months.
Yeah, through the summer time
for a block of months.
And now it's like, All right,
let's start 20, 24 off on the right foot.
So shout out to nutrition.
Excited to be their partner, Tommy.
And then back to the
the results from this study.
The interesting thing about the walk
was the list of one of the
interesting things for me about the least
effective time was that midday time.
Yeah, that late afternoon.
If you are in the habit of doing
like maybe it's
an after work or it's a late afternoon,
early evening walk,
but it's like a longer walk
that was actually the least effective one.
So not that you should stop doing it,
but if you have a way to kind of move
those pieces around a little bit,
focus on after a meal,
especially going later into the day
as our insulin sensitivity goes
down, later on into the day,
the more effect that we can
get out of our walks, the better.
Because if we're able to drop blood sugar
by 20 or 30 points
going on later in the day
like an after dinner or
like an early dinner or especially
if it's going to be a later dinner,
if we're able to drop that, that's
going to help prevent the overcompensation
drop in blood sugar
that can happen after that meal,
which then leads
to snacky cravings in the evening,
which that can be very,
very problematic, can make it hard to
close an eating window,
can even make it hard to
actually consistently hit home
at like one meal a day,
because then it becomes like a slippery
slope or, you know, evening
time window that can be very difficult
to kind of pull the brakes on.
So, you know,
just that just that intentionality
that leads to better habits,
better decision making and a little easier
time sticking to my fast means
tomorrow is going to be easier, too.
And tonight
sleep is going to be better, too.
It's going to be more restful, more,
more recovery, which means better
metabolic flexibility tomorrow.
These are all links in the chain
that are helped to lead to better results.
Yeah, if we started the conversation
today, we're setting off simple things
that we can get behind for this year,
not the New Year's resolutions.
I'm going to work out six days a week.
I'm going to train, I'm
going to remove all the things I love.
I'm just going to do long fasts
until I hit my goal.
Whatever.
We fall into that weight loss thing.
Yeah, we just try to blow it
all up and start over
because the calendar told us that
we should have this newfound motivation
because of how
we perceive the holiday season went.
Right?
Maybe the scale is not your friend
right now, or maybe you were able to
get some massive momentum,
which we're hoping for.
Most of you start the year off.
These are the simple things.
These are the tiny habits, right?
These are the
the 1% better things every day.
I just remember
being at a See You event once
and listening to a speaker from stage
tell a story about this client
that lost and regained
£75 multiple, multiple times.
We're talking like multiple times.
I don't remember if it was five
or six times, but he's lost like one year.
He'll lose it.
The next year he'll gain it on her,
use it almost for a decade.
Right.
And this speaker was talking about,
okay, we need to do some rewiring here.
Right. Foundational habits.
We need to rewire and really, really
before we add in a new thing,
we need to really make sure
that we've rewired the foundation,
because what'll happen with habits
is people start stacking their habits.
And one of the habits
isn't really become a habit yet, right?
It's still kind of like the new thing
while motivation is high, right?
Again, January resolution season.
But what he had him do
because when this guy did it,
he would lose the £75 he'd commit,
he'd lose it, and then it would slowly
start to come back.
So instead of having him go to the gym
and workout right from the get go,
literally for the first 90 days,
he had him lay out his gym,
clothes, change,
go to the gym, pre-workout, coffee,
whatever it was, drive to the gym, show
up, walk into the gym,
go to the water
fountain, fill his container
with water, drink some water,
turn around and walk out and go home.
But I'm sitting in
the in the queue going, there's no way.
Right.
And what it was doing is it was rewiring
that dopamine reward system
because he was going
and putting in all this time,
effort and energy.
But then it wasn't sticking.
It wasn't becoming part
of his subconscious values.
It was just this is what I do
to lose the weight, right?
Not just
this is something that I do because.
Right.
So I love this idea that we can
instead of trying to change everything
at once, New Year's resolution season,
let me push my fasting.
Let me restrict my food.
Let me workout harder. Let me strive more.
I'm not saying don't set goals
and don't go walk them out.
But this study really shows
that by chunking and
by breaking it down into simpler,
sustainable pieces.
And especially I started today
saying I don't love walking by.
Like it's been really cool
to see by sticking with this how much more
I enjoy it and how much simpler it is
and I know that I'm
getting the most bang for my buck
because it literally is shown in the data
that's also preventing doubting.
Thomas Speaking of showing it to you,
like click the link in the show notes
so that you can see the visual
of what these glucose spikes look like.
Because the one that stuck out
the most to me is the 6 p.m. meal
and you have this up to 70.0,
I forgot to mention that.
Right.
So yeah, break that down a little bit.
Okay.
So like the biggest spike throughout
the day is going to be typically
the post-dinner spike. Okay.
And in all of these,
all of these participants were pretty much
following like a standard American diet.
It was roughly half carbohydrate,
maybe 30% fat, and then the rest protein.
So not what we recommend.
Yeah, right.
But it eat, but it even works.
We get it.
It works in this group.
It can work in the other group too.
It's not optimal for sure,
but it is pretty.
It is pretty standard, pretty average.
So but after the 6 p.m.
meal, the third arrow
that's that's along the x axis there
you can see this roughly a 70 point blood
sugar spike,
but the highest one is in the group
that only walks at 4:30 p.m.
for 45 minutes every single day.
They had the highest spike
and about 35 points below.
That was the group that was walking
three times in a day,
which is crazy on the visual.
I mean, that's going to be
a much bigger difference.
This can be a huge difference
an hour or two later,
as far as sticking to my fast
or do I feel the cravings
kind of sneaking up on me
does later night cravings.
So and then you can add to that that too.
While you're in the show notes, click
to get the blueprint to fasting
for fat loss because it's going to help
you accelerate this process,
Get your fasting habits in line
with your walking regimen,
or your exercise regimen or whatever it is
that you're focused on right now
so that you can kind of
put the pieces in place and get some
consistency going into this new year.
Yeah, for sure.
So the visual is so powerful.
And what I just heard there,
Tommy, as we wrap up,
was if you are doing the pre-dinner walk,
move it to Post-Dinner.
If you're doing the morning
walk, break it up and do it.
Post your fasting.
But if you're looking for a fasting
guidance, yeah,
we got that to head to the shownotes
click the link, download the blueprint
to fasting for fat loss.
It's a free 20 page pdf.
It gives you some of the who, what,
when, where
and why give you some fasting schedules.
And then you combine this
Hey, after you eat, go for a walk.
Absolutely. So simple.
So life changing this coming from the anti
walking guy.
I would rather go pump some Mayan torture
myself on a peloton or a concept to rower
or skier, some zone to training myself
to death or lifting weights.
But I can say that it's been really cool
to see the changes
in just the way I think about it,
the way I feel about it.
But ultimately we know under the hood
it's really moved the needle.
So yeah, as we continue to build
on the foundations for 2024, I'm excited.
We've got a ton of cool stuff
planned for this year.
Head to the show notes,
click the link, download the blueprint
of fasting for fat loss.
You can also head to the Facebook
community where we consistently break
the two rules of fasting,
which is don't talk about fasting
and don't talk about fasting.
Tommy, as always, appreciate
the conversation. We'll talk soon.
Thank you. Bye.
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