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Ep. 115 - Doing Exercise Fasted Vs Fed | Is Intermittent Fasting And Doing Weight Training Effective On Body Composition?

Uncategorized Mar 08, 2022

 

In this episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss the effects of overnight fasted exercise on weight loss and body composition, monitoring blood sugar before and after exercise, doing cardio or exercise fasted versus fed, the effects of intermittent fasting, and lifting weights.

 

Research Links

https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5142/2/4/43
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031938421001451?via%3Dihub
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S026156141930010X
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/

 

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Fasting For Life Ep. 115 Transcript

00;00;01;24 - 00;00;03;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Hello. I'm Dr. Scott Watier.

00;00;03;17 - 00;00;06;21
[Tommy Welling]
And I'm Tommy Welling, and you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast.

00;00;08;09 - 00;00;14;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
This podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness and live the life you truly deserve.

00;00;15;25 - 00;00;24;10
[Tommy Welling]
Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss on health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design.

00;00;25;01 - 00;00;46;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives, and we hope to share the tools that we have learned along the way. Everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast, my name is Dr. Scott Waters, and I'm here, as always, of my good friend and colleague Tommy Welling.

00;00;46;28 - 00;00;49;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Good afternoon to you, sir.

00;00;49;16 - 00;00;50;11
[Tommy Welling]
Hey, Scott, how are you?

00;00;50;23 - 00;01;11;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Fantastic, my friend. I am excited about today's episode. I feel like I say that most episodes. But the conversation today just came from a Q&A call that we did with some of our continuity members, and it just brought about some really cool talking points and some long term sustainability conversations.

00;01;11;28 - 00;01;21;13
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then we went and found some research articles to back up what we're seeing and clear up, clear the air, so to speak. So we're going to bring that to you guys today because we thought it was extremely valuable.

00;01;21;27 - 00;01;36;10
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And it talks about a couple of the main threads in the fitness and dieting landscape when it comes to protein and working out. So we're going to unpack it because my goodness, when you dove into this, it is all over the map.

00;01;36;26 - 00;01;51;19
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, arrows pointing in all different directions, which is exactly what I was feeling like whenever I was exercising, mostly to lose the weight, you know, and I felt like the results weren't heading in the right direction for me, but I wasn't sure why.

00;01;51;19 - 00;02;02;11
[Tommy Welling]
So I kept chasing more and more and more data. And yeah, I want to. I definitely want to get into why that might be the case, because I think a lot of people feel that frustration.

00;02;03;01 - 00;02;12;15
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I want you to expand a little bit more on kind of what you did in the arrows and directions you went with the meals and the timing and the working out in just a second. But I want to welcome all the new listeners.

00;02;13;06 - 00;02;24;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Welcome to the Fasting five podcast. I'm Dr. Scott. You can hear Tommy here through my screen. It's an audio medium, so I'm moving my hand, but that does nothing for you if you're new. Go back and listen to episode 100.

00;02;25;08 - 00;02;37;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We did a little reset for the centennial episode, where we highlighted some of the most impactful episodes and episodes are the most downloads and most feedback from the first 100. What breaks are fast? How to lose £30 with fasting, et cetera?

00;02;37;27 - 00;02;50;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You can go all the way back to the beginning and listen to episode one and two, or Tommy and I tell our story as to how we ended up here. So welcome. And then for you, long term listeners, just a shout out of love and appreciation.

00;02;51;04 - 00;03;06;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Keep those five star reviews coming in. Those are our favorite kind. We also like honest feedback as well. But if you've been with us for a while, shout out to you as well. We'll go over. If you're new, we go over an action step at the end of every episode and we kind of bob and weave in

00;03;06;25 - 00;03;24;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
between some more nuanced lifestyle application. We talk about different fasting types. We break down the research and science. We're really just try to make it digestible, fun, actionable. I tell a lot of bad jokes ramble. Sometimes Tommy lands the plane, so you'll get to know us as we go.

00;03;24;07 - 00;03;37;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But today's conversation, Tommy, you already started to kind of unpack it is we're going to research a few different reference, a few different articles here. But your journey, you kind of trying to figure this out and on today's Q&A call.

00;03;37;16 - 00;03;50;29
[Dr. Scott Watier]
There are a couple of questions that really uncovered the fact that we are operating outside of the status quo in getting results that most people are looking for when it comes to weight and health.

00;03;51;17 - 00;04;12;10
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, and it really can feel like you're swimming upstream sometimes whenever you're talking about fasting and again, if you're if you're new here, there's a reason why we say the first two rules are fasting or don't talk about fasting because it it really can be a little uncomfortable for for other folks around who aren't very familiar with

00;04;12;10 - 00;04;23;17
[Tommy Welling]
fasting. Or maybe they're they don't know why you would want to do that. They might go well, I've never heard of that. That sounds that sounds like too much. That sounds dangerous. That sounds insert x y z here.

00;04;23;25 - 00;04;44;26
[Tommy Welling]
And when we look at some of the the research behind, you know, getting the weight off and actually exercising and and constructing a healthy long term lifestyle, it can be it can be really tough if you're in the middle of, you know, trying to do that, you're you're eating right, you're tracking your food, maybe you're tracking your

00;04;44;26 - 00;04;56;03
[Tommy Welling]
macros, maybe you're eating multiple times a day, your meal prepping, meal prepping and then you're in, you're going to the gym, you're working out. You're you're you're vigilant about all of these things, but you're still not seeing the scale move.

00;04;56;03 - 00;05;05;09
[Tommy Welling]
You're still not seeing the blood work get under control. And ultimately, those are your main goals. That's where I was for a long time, for decades.

00;05;05;25 - 00;05;20;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, same here. So am I getting enough protein? When should I work out? Should I do fasted versus fat? Well, guess what? Those are two of the exact topics that we're going to be talking about today. So I appreciate that perspective, Tommy, because I mean, it was true.

00;05;20;01 - 00;05;36;22
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It was like, All right, I'll just get on the elliptical, you know, at 5:00 a.m. and do some work to burn some mortalities, right? Yeah. And it didn't get results for me. And then, you know, when we come, we're talking about fasting and the power that it has to decrease your intake, but also the other additional benefits where

00;05;36;22 - 00;05;51;10
[Dr. Scott Watier]
you're going to. We'll unpack a little bit today, but you're going to be able to. Regain control through the simplicity of removing all of those different arrows going in different directions, so right, that's how it regain my health, that's how it turned my life around, Tommy.

00;05;51;10 - 00;06;07;15
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I know the same for you and then for thousands of other people that have kind of joined us on this journey. So the first question came in really about working out, and it was a question about monitoring blood sugar before and after exercise and this person's leveling up their their health journey with knowing insulin resistance and blood

00;06;07;15 - 00;06;28;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
glucose. And when those types of things and they were talking about light or low intensity interval training versus HIIT and she was wondering about, you know, is she found that light before or after a meal didn't spike blood sugar as much and HIIT spiked it much more?

00;06;28;06 - 00;06;42;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And it kind of was like, Wow, what do I do? Yeah, I'm not. She's not a diabetic. She started with a healthy blood glucose, but she worked out. And the question really was was what would be more effective and sustainable keyword for fat loss?

00;06;42;25 - 00;06;55;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And she's like, Well, is it better to do HIIT earlier in the day than later? Does blood glucose spike matter? Does it really matter at all? Since three hours after my HIIT workout, it was still higher than before I started and not sure it affects sleep and it just kind of kept going.

00;06;55;28 - 00;07;11;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And we're like, You know what? There's some really good stuff in here, the sustainability piece for fat loss we're going to unpack in just a second. But the answer to this question and we can start to reverse engineer Tommy is the answer to to her was it doesn't matter.

00;07;11;26 - 00;07;25;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
What matters is that and at first, I don't think it was well-received. Before we get to what is more sustainable for you and what do you enjoy for the long term winds, the long term sustainability?

00;07;26;11 - 00;07;40;08
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, because when when we're looking at what should I do, we're getting to the nuance of like your exercise timing, your your actual schedule, which type of exercise is best? All of these kind of things. There's a couple of parts of the equation.

00;07;40;09 - 00;07;57;23
[Tommy Welling]
one is, is there is there information is are good data on what's going to be the most effective towards the goals that you're looking for. But then the other piece of the puzzle is, do those differentiators? Are they substantial enough to matter when you strongly prefer one of them over the other?

00;07;58;02 - 00;08;10;23
[Tommy Welling]
Because what's going to get you up in the morning? What's going to get you to the gym on a consistent basis today, tomorrow, the next day? Not just fighting upstream, like clawing your way through it for the next 30 or 60 days before you go?

00;08;11;07 - 00;08;23;23
[Tommy Welling]
Never mind. I don't want to be doing this versus doing something that you actually enjoy doing. And you can see yourself doing it long term, like that's usually where the magic is going to happen, going towards what you're going to be able to do long term.

00;08;24;01 - 00;08;34;15
[Tommy Welling]
Because because then you can start to put it into your actual maintenance plan, and it doesn't just have to be the temporary thing that I did to get the weight off. It can be I love this and this is my lifestyle.

00;08;34;26 - 00;08;48;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right? And that's why I said she was getting really granular with the questions about bludger. Yes, after an HIIT workout, your blood sugar is going to race, but it also raises and falls throughout your circadian rhythm throughout the day, which is why I love your question about sleep.

00;08;48;15 - 00;08;57;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So, you know, there are studies that show that if you get out in the morning and you see the dawn light and you workout outside in that dawn light, that you'll have a substantial increase in your fat burn for the rest of the day.

00;08;59;01 - 00;09;12;29
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But maybe not if you're doing a lot like maybe if you're fasted or not fasted. So I love that layer of it too, so we prioritize sleep for her. Do what works for you. So for me, getting up at 5:00 a.m. like you said to me and working out, I hate it.

00;09;13;05 - 00;09;29;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
My body doesn't like it. My mental state doesn't like it. I'm tired after and then I I just don't feel great until about midday. I prefer to work out during my lull, right, that twelve to two time for me, where I tend to have an energy depletion because my Monday, my mornings are so busy.

00;09;30;13 - 00;09;45;21
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I prefer to work out then and if I work out late at night, I'm not going to go to bed. So again, to that sustainability, what do you like to do and why really is important, but specifically to the question of what is more effective for fat loss?

00;09;45;22 - 00;09;58;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
There is a meta analysis in a systemic review, which is the best case type of research that we want to see. And it's the effect of overnight fasted exercise on weight loss and body composition of systemic review and meta analysis.

00;09;58;19 - 00;10;21;22
[Dr. Scott Watier]
This was Daniel Hackett and Amanda Hagstrom. This came out October 2017. And really, the takeaway of what we said to her was it doesn't matter. It is true. Doing cardio or exercise fasted versus fed, right? Yeah. And fasted cardio during the exercise.

00;10;21;22 - 00;10;40;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Or you're going to have more fat burning, but then the rest of the day you're going to have less. Yeah, go figure. And then during a fed workout, you're going to have less burned fat burn during, but then you're going to have more burn the rest of the day because it's not, you know, the equation is the

00;10;40;12 - 00;10;54;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
stored versus the burn fat and people want to lose fat. They just don't want to lose weight, right? So really, really what this showed in this menno analysis was that the net zero effect? So what's the takeaway? Choose your own adventure.

00;10;55;17 - 00;11;09;26
[Tommy Welling]
Right? That's exactly what the what the bottom line is is the the order of it doesn't really matter. And you know, it has to do with with actually being able to tap into those long term fat stores, whether I I ate before my workout or I ate later.

00;11;10;13 - 00;11;31;25
[Tommy Welling]
The net energy balance is going to be the same, so choose which one is is more comfortable, sustainable, preferable to you long term and and you know, to her question as well. I think it it speaks to the fact that we all undervalue sleep because sleep is almost an aside in her question.

00;11;31;25 - 00;11;51;26
[Tommy Welling]
But honestly, for overall health and for the the actual effectiveness of her weight loss journey, that sleep is going to be key because we know that just a small drop in the quality or in the quantity of your sleep in the short term decreases metabolic rate, it decreases the protein synthesis like it's going to be harder to

00;11;51;26 - 00;11;52;06
[Tommy Welling]
target.

00;11;52;07 - 00;11;56;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Increases your insulin resistance or cravings, all of the real life stuff do.

00;11;57;00 - 00;12;05;26
[Tommy Welling]
Right, it leads to more fat storage, so prioritizing that sleep is going to be number one on my on my priority list and then number two is going to be that long term sustainability factor.

00;12;06;10 - 00;12;20;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, absolutely. Love it. And with this type of topic, we had another question that came in today that was related to it in the idea of a macro composition that's ideal for a fasting lifestyle or a protein amount that I should be consuming.

00;12;20;24 - 00;12;35;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then that opens up the question of the timing and the amount and all of these different things. So we want to make this a little bit, too. And this question came in from someone who has lost £70 and tell me, what was that over the last eight months, I believe.

00;12;35;28 - 00;12;51;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. And is now has a personal trainer because now he's working on the body composition when he's he's at maintenance or damn near close. I want to say he's a couple of pounds are fluctuating around it, really figuring out what his new identity is at this.

00;12;51;03 - 00;12;52;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You weight, right?

00;12;52;12 - 00;12;56;21
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, he has all kinds of new power now. Like, what do I do with all this? Yeah, new.

00;12;56;21 - 00;13;13;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
New me who dis right like right? It's just just incredible. And so he has a personal trainer, and the trainer was expressing concern over not getting enough fuel with his fasting lifestyle. And when you're at maintenance, doing an intermittent fasting window is absolutely viable, right?

00;13;14;04 - 00;13;27;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. And we're going to talk about some research that actually supports that and the main macro of concern. The macronutrients are carbohydrate, protein and fat. And you could really count alcohol as a fourth one and add in some micronutrient importance in there as well.

00;13;27;12 - 00;13;41;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But the main groups are those three. The concern was really in that protein because, you know, the the with fasting, there's some myths out there that you don't you're not going to get enough fuel are you're going to beat your body's going to be eating the protein right?

00;13;41;02 - 00;14;01;09
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You're not going to get enough in. You're going to lose your lean tissue mass and in all of those different things. So really unpacking this for him, it came from the perspective of all right. Well, is it first of all, is intermittent fasting and doing weight training like he's doing effective on body composition?

00;14;02;03 - 00;14;23;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And the first study that we're going to look at is from a story in Laki at all in 2021. And this was looking at the effects of intermittent fasting and lifting weights. And the main takeaway and we'll talk about the protein piece in a second was if intermittent fasting led to greater fat loss without significantly impacting changes

00;14;23;20 - 00;14;28;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
in lean mass tissue. Nice. Right. Like Mike Trout.

00;14;29;09 - 00;14;31;27
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, all right. Like, that's exactly what I was looking for.

00;14;32;15 - 00;14;40;25
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Can you do it? Yeah, absolutely. So just if you want to see if this works, go look at Terry Crews, right? I think he's the right guard guy. Or it might be the guy I don't know. I don't remember.

00;14;41;01 - 00;14;54;21
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We don't have cable and I haven't seen him one of his commercials. And while that do fast and he is shredded. Right, right. Well, look at Thomas Deflower, who's big in the intermittent fasting world. That guy's biceps are bigger than my thighs like he is also shredded, right?

00;14;55;03 - 00;15;09;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And it's interesting that, you know this is new research, by the way, to this is this was out of 2021, right? So we're not talking about a study from 1980. We're talking about something that is much more commonplace, right?

00;15;09;14 - 00;15;27;13
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Which we talked about in the beginning. And the opening was, yeah, we kind of operating out of the status quo while fasting has actually taken on a life of its own. It's very much more well known and that six to eight hour eating window or that intermittent fasting that that 16 hour, 18 hour fasting window is really

00;15;27;13 - 00;15;41;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
sustainable for maintenance. So I just love that this study was like, All right. Yes, personal trainer. Yes, I know your intent and your and your concern was real, but we're going to unpack what those protein numbers should look like in a minute.

00;15;41;25 - 00;15;56;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And they do and they do. In this study, they say that the baseline should be 1.6 grams per kilogram, and we'll unpack that into grams per pound here in just a second. But it's not as much as you're thinking, and it's not as much as what you'll hear in the industry.

00;15;57;17 - 00;16;10;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, you need to be having, you know, £1, one gram per pound of body weight. That's right, unless you're like and we'll talk about the upper and lower limits here, but that's for us mere mortals. That's not sustainable, nor should be the gold, in my opinion.

00;16;10;23 - 00;16;25;29
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And I think you're highlighting what one of the main issues is with the interpretation of that point that we we oftentimes get like, you know, it's it's misquoted out there a lot, and it's because of that whole pound to kilogram conversion.

00;16;25;29 - 00;16;38;25
[Tommy Welling]
So depending on where you actually heard it and what country you're in, we tend to operate in pounds. But at the same time, a lot of this data was done and they report the results in kilograms. So if no one has a calculator with them, they're saying 1.6.

00;16;39;01 - 00;16;52;26
[Tommy Welling]
But actually, what they mean if I'm operating in pounds is what they mean is 0.7. So literally less than 50%. So. So we have what's happening when when somebody conveys this information, they can be more than doubling what the actual requirement is.

00;16;52;26 - 00;16;53;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And that's a.

00;16;53;12 - 00;17;05;03
[Tommy Welling]
Serious problem when I'm trying to perceive like I'm trying to visualize myself within this, this lifestyle, how am I going to do that, especially how am I going to do that when I'm only eating one meal a day right now for fat loss results?

00;17;05;09 - 00;17;17;18
[Tommy Welling]
Or how am I going to do that within, let's say, a four hour eating window? It's going to be tough for me to get in, you know, hundreds of grams of protein and this kind of thing, and I automatically start to paint myself into a corner where I go, No, that's not going to work for me.

00;17;17;23 - 00;17;29;21
[Tommy Welling]
So it must not this fasting thing must not be for me. So I need to go do it a different direction, which then what's the other? What's the opposite side? It's a lot of meal prep. It's four or 56 meals a day and those are all insulin spikes.

00;17;29;28 - 00;17;43;25
[Tommy Welling]
So even if you have a calorie deficit, you're spiking insulin after spiking insulin and then you're leading to more fat storage. And that's a major problem. So I couldn't win in either one of those scenarios. And now I'm just I'm frustrated and I feel like I can't get this weight off no matter how hard I try.

00;17;44;09 - 00;17;55;15
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And one of the other things in this study, too, is that a lot of these studies are done in young, healthy, active participants, completing pretty rigorous training programs right where the protein demands will be higher, the energy demands would be higher.

00;17;55;26 - 00;18;12;20
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Mm-Hmm. And then the other consideration, too, is, you know, we're not talking about the growth hormone spike that takes place. You know, when you're getting into those those fasting windows between 18 to 24 hours all the way up to 30 hours, you're going to see that growth hormone spike.

00;18;12;22 - 00;18;28;07
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Now growth hormone is not is not catabolic, excuse me, anabolic. It is not the stimulator of muscle protein synthesis, but it is lean, muscle protective. Yeah. So if you know in here in this study that we first reference, they do mention that, hey, we need to look at, you know?

00;18;29;17 - 00;18;43;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You know, I came across this post from Stronger by Science on Instagram. It's just an incredible, it's all science based account and it's just great. But they did mention that, you know, you know, looking at protocols like the 52 protocol and ADF and things like that.

00;18;43;10 - 00;18;58;28
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, they haven't been studied because most of these are done with the intermittent window in lean, healthy adults, right? But even at that, at that point, your protein? Requirement at that one point 6.7 grams per pound of bodyweight.

00;18;58;28 - 00;19;15;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So put that in a in a calorie number and a macro number of Tommy just to pretty much the kind of land the plane on what that really looks like in terms of your total caloric intake on that day and then your total protein intake or percentage of your macro breakdown.

00;19;15;27 - 00;19;26;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Because really like when you start looking at these numbers like, Oh, I need you pretty well know, the reality is that that the timing of the protein isn't as important, either. Like that whole, you have 30 minutes after your workout.

00;19;26;23 - 00;19;45;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We're going to unpack that here in a second to and shed some light on the fact that that is not necessarily accurate and that if you're at maintenance or you're close to maintenance, the ability to hit some of these numbers generally speaking and take some of that pressure off and getting to excuse me, exposures to protein rather

00;19;45;14 - 00;19;50;24
[Dr. Scott Watier]
than a certain time of the day. But that consistency from day to day and week to week is more important.

00;19;51;20 - 00;20;07;13
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And that's one of the things that can stop people in their tracks, too. When they're they're new to fasting and they're coming in, especially if they're working with the trainer or like their exercise goals are very important to them because if I'm if I'm buying into this whole anabolic window, I need to get this this protein

00;20;07;13 - 00;20;17;06
[Tommy Welling]
in right after my workout, right, 30 minutes or 60 minutes or 90 minutes, whatever it is that you're trying to follow, that can be tough to say, Well, how am I going to be doing an intermittent fasting window?

00;20;17;07 - 00;20;38;19
[Tommy Welling]
How do I do a longer fast if I need to burn some fat and get my protein shakes and all that? So when we when we get to the example of a person trying to calculate these numbers and it's 170 pound person and they're there, we're looking at point £7 point seven grams per pound of body weight

00;20;39;01 - 00;20;55;15
[Tommy Welling]
. We're yet to 119 grams of protein, which is 476 calories. And the cool thing here is if we have a 2000 calorie maintenance level diet, that's only a 25% macronutrients split for protein, even slightly less than protein then than 25%.

00;20;55;15 - 00;20;57;20
[Tommy Welling]
So that's very, very doable and sustainable.

00;20;58;03 - 00;21;08;21
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Which is low, right? You're going to be getting more than that. If you're eating that many calories and you're at that mean, it's late, right? So the question comes up is that that anabolic window or that timing component, right?

00;21;09;10 - 00;21;23;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And it suggests that it should be consumed in a certain window. The study that we're going to share on that is it's done in postmenopausal women and it's a full body resistance training program. So it's a very small subset, but it also speaks to this low end level, right?

00;21;24;03 - 00;21;43;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Whereas we get older, we don't need as much. We're not our body's not in a anabolic state, as much right as we age. So this is a study. Does protein timing matter Flavia B at all? And it shows that the the main takeaway, I should say.

00;21;44;03 - 00;22;01;27
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Is that strength and total lean body mass increased in both groups with no significant differences? And what they were really doing is having 30 grams of protein and then later in the day having two installments of 30 grams of carbohydrates.

00;22;02;17 - 00;22;20;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And they were looking at whether or not the protein consumption had an overall effect on the body mass increase. So what was that total increase in body mass? And the groups looking at pre protein before meal and protein after meal?

00;22;20;15 - 00;22;37;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And what they found was that the timing was really indiscreet. It didn't really matter. What matters is that you're getting consistent protein at these baseline numbers. And in this study, it was 1.8 grams per kilogram of body weight, which is point eight grams per pound, right?

00;22;37;19 - 00;23;00;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So again, not that much. And they still saw body mass increases, lean body mass increases in both groups in postmenopausal women, which hallelujah like, man, I don't need to be eating chicken breast and and hard boiled eggs and seven cold salmon and white whitefish, right, 20 47 to eight times eight times a day.

00;23;01;08 - 00;23;03;19
[Tommy Welling]
And no protein shakes needed either. Right?

00;23;03;19 - 00;23;05;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, which is a great point.

00;23;05;14 - 00;23;22;04
[Tommy Welling]
That that's music to my ears. I wish I could have told myself that, you know, 20 years ago before I spent all the time and money and you know, all the time it at the supplement stores. But I think that speaks to the fact that when we go through an intense resistance workout and we're looking at actually

00;23;22;04 - 00;23;40;26
[Tommy Welling]
growing our our strength, growing our muscle mass, we're using a lot of the building blocks that we already have within our body. We are recycling our amino acids and our protein molecules that we already have, and that's going to make up 70% of what we're going to be building when we're building new building blocks of protein.

00;23;40;26 - 00;23;54;26
[Tommy Welling]
So that's the reason why we don't have to just bring in all new protein, all new amino acids because our body doesn't want to get rid of those things are valuable resources. So we store them as we can and then we recycle them at any given opportunity that we have.

00;23;54;26 - 00;24;03;27
[Tommy Welling]
So we're bringing in 30% for that new muscular growth, and we just want to support that. And it doesn't take hundreds of chickens, chicken breast and eggs and everything else to do that.

00;24;05;06 - 00;24;16;16
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Another so just to give like kind of a reference frame. If you're new and you're fasting and you're hearing this stuff from the outside world and this is where the Persian, our herbs need a little bit of reassurance.

00;24;16;25 - 00;24;26;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, reassurance to stand on that. No. What he obviously what he did worked. Yeah. You know, he's off a bunch of medications and his life is completely changed. And now he's like, Yeah, I want to get fit, right?

00;24;26;12 - 00;24;48;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
OK, cool. You know, fat loss and muscle building. Physiologically different, but very well attenuated or very close closely processes intertwined processes, right? So for just an overview on those protein consumption numbers, we've just talked about the study that showed the 1.6 or the point seven grams per pound, the 1.8 gram per kilogram of 2.8.

00;24;48;23 - 00;25;03;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
There was a study Morten at all in 2018. So again, all of these studies are 18 2021, right? New stuff that's coming out. Yeah. And this is like, how do I look at like what should should my protein intake be right?

00;25;03;08 - 00;25;22;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Because protein facilitate recovery supports hypertrophy, which is muscle building and recovery enhances satiety, right? It helps with those cravings. And really, you know, industry standard is that 1.6 to about 2.2 grams per kg, but just a couple of things to think about is your protein intake may differ based on your composition.

00;25;22;05 - 00;25;34;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Goal your exercise habits. If you're not exercising and you're just walking, you're good with the lower level like you don't have to stress, right? You're going to be getting it. Even if you just eat a couple of meals, you're just blindly going to be falling into it.

00;25;34;27 - 00;25;51;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Other things to take into account would be your body fat percentage and your energy balance. Are you in a surplus? Are you a deficit? So really, looking at the lowest level possible, Tommy is 1.25 grams per kilogram, or point 57 grams per pound.

00;25;51;22 - 00;26;03;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So if you give us a couple of like real nice life numbers on that and then because if I know you really did it, but if I do math on the fly, I'm just going to butcher it and look silly and I'll have to like, you know, go and podcast that it'd be like, Hey, can you cut

00;26;03;06 - 00;26;24;06
[Dr. Scott Watier]
out that from 18 minutes to 22 minutes because I sounded like a doofus? And then the high end is going to be 3.1 grams per kilogram, or the 1.4 grams per pound of body weight. And so each one of those groups, so the one point 1.25 or the point 57 is this is going to be advisable intakes

00;26;24;06 - 00;26;43;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
for whether if you're sedentary and don't really lift weights, your weight is stable. So you haven't been in a massive influx or or your scale has been going up or down and you have moderate to high body fat percentage the higher BMI categories overweight or obese, and you prefer not to have to worry about and taking a

00;26;43;08 - 00;26;56;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
lot of protein. The bottom level for you is 0.57. I'll have you give the number here in just a second, Tommy and then the well, actually, you know, well, let's unpack the low range first. So give me those real life numbers or what that would look like for someone that sedentary doesn't really lift weights.

00;26;56;14 - 00;27;04;02
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Maybe you're just walking your weights, you're not losing or gaining. You have moderate to high body fat percentage, and you just don't really care about eating chicken all day.

00;27;04;13 - 00;27;25;01
[Tommy Welling]
Right? Sure. OK, so if we did an example like £170 and then that's going to put us right around 100 grams of protein per day. And so that's going to be 400 calories. And if we were like a maintenance, let's say, a 2000 calorie per day diet, then that's that's a 20% macro split for protein.

00;27;25;01 - 00;27;31;22
[Tommy Welling]
And like, that's that's definitely on the lower end, but it's nice to see that that's enough. That's sufficient.

00;27;31;22 - 00;27;46;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Especially at 80 grams from a chicken breast and a half. Sure. Like, yeah, getting to 100. Not not bad. So yeah, if you're in the weight loss category, we'll talk about that in a second. If those other parameters are true, but you're really trying to go through more of an aggressive fat loss phase.

00;27;46;18 - 00;28;00;11
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You're using fasting, you're doing, Oh my God, you've increased your fasting windows, you're seeing the scale move. That's OK. We'll tell you where we really want to hear in just a second. The second high end group, right, so highly active and lift weights, substantial deficit.

00;28;00;11 - 00;28;11;13
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Really trying to lean out is already very lean and prefers a higher protein intake that ranges of 3.1 grams per kg, or the 1.4 grams per pound of body weight. So what do those numbers look like?

00;28;11;24 - 00;28;31;12
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, so that's about 246 grams of protein, so right around 1000 calories. And again, if we were talking about a 2000 calorie per day diet, that's about a 50% macro split for the protein. So again, like so now we have established the range between 20% to 50% from the low to the high range.

00;28;31;18 - 00;28;35;15
[Tommy Welling]
And I think that that that's it's really, really good perspective.

00;28;36;15 - 00;28;49;01
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So wherever you fall, going back to the original pre frame of this conversation today is really going to be focusing on the sustainability and what you like to do. So I know we talk about when we used to do these customized plans, Tommy, we did nearly 100 of them, or maybe even more.

00;28;49;02 - 00;29;07;04
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I try to blackout and remember that because it was really daunting trying to customize this for people and getting their feedback and then them doing it and falling off and the follow up in the conversation. And it was like, OK, customized plans, customized fasting plans, customized meal plans, customized weight loss plans, those that is not the direction

00;29;07;04 - 00;29;25;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
. We're going to take this if we are going to reach the masses, right? Yeah. So where do you want to be? Honestly, anywhere between that point eight to one gram? Now we are talking about maintenance. Your end goal calories, if you talk, if you are a tracker or a calorie counter or a macro lover, you know, point

00;29;25;08 - 00;29;39;12
[Dr. Scott Watier]
eight to one. If you're in the sedentary, the highly active and you're wanting to lose weight and get your go away, I think that's the best plan and that is absolutely obtainable. So again, we're at the salmon swimming upstream.

00;29;39;12 - 00;29;57;23
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We're operating outside of the status quo. The great thing about this stuff, Tommy, was these are real life questions. These are the things that we're speed bumps for you and I and so many other people. And the research now, because it's become more mainstream, is actually showing the benefit of being able to adopt a fasting lifestyle, but

00;29;57;23 - 00;30;03;10
[Dr. Scott Watier]
also achieve and then maintain a healthy body weight and body composition.

00;30;03;18 - 00;30;20;13
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, it's really, really nice to know. Reassuring. And again, I wish I had a time machine to go back and share this with my former self, but unfortunately, I don't. But it's nice to know that as a good rule of thumb, I could just take my my healthy goal body weight do that as as one gram per

00;30;20;13 - 00;30;35;23
[Tommy Welling]
pound of body weight for my protein intake. If I'm kind of establishing those macronutrients, if I want to track it a little bit or kind of dial in. And and the other cool thing is to know that I don't have to get that within 30 or 60 minutes or I don't have to perfectly time it with my

00;30;35;23 - 00;30;36;00
[Tommy Welling]
work.

00;30;36;00 - 00;30;39;19
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Before my meal, after my meal, after my workout. But yeah, all of that, right?

00;30;40;00 - 00;30;50;25
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, I can. I can simplify that part of the equation because the body doesn't have a minute to minute memory. It's not thinking, Oh, well, you just worked out 30 minutes ago or 60 minutes ago. This window is closing.

00;30;51;01 - 00;31;04;03
[Tommy Welling]
No, no, no. The data shows the complete opposite where we're looking at 24 to 48 to 72 hour like time frames as long as as long as zoomed out. The moving average of our protein intake is sufficient over time.

00;31;04;16 - 00;31;07;10
[Tommy Welling]
Then then we're good. We're we're in the right spot.

00;31;07;25 - 00;31;19;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And you don't have to be as concerned that you're not getting enough as long as you're eating real whole food, right? As long as you're not eating out of the vending machine, you're going to be OK. Yeah, you're probably not going to see results and feel any great eating out of the vending machine anyway.

00;31;19;08 - 00;31;34;16
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So you're probably already past that point. OK, so if you are new to fasting and you do this podcast, you go, I thought this was a fasting podcast, right? It is. But this is the real life stuff that you encounter when you are trying to abide by the first two rules of fasting, which is don't talk about

00;31;34;16 - 00;31;45;08
[Dr. Scott Watier]
fasting and don't talk about fasting now. Now, our man in our group, John, here he can talk about fasting. He's he's there. He's he's climb the mountain top and he's live in it. So if you're new, go to the website.

00;31;45;14 - 00;32;01;26
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Fasting for Life Gqom. You can download the Fast Start guide, six simple steps to put one meal a day or fasting into your day to day life. And then if you're looking for a level up and you want to know more about insulin resistance, we have our insulin assessment, which is a subjective look at whether or not

00;32;01;26 - 00;32;13;03
[Dr. Scott Watier]
you may have, you know, some signs of insulin resistance, which is not allowed you to take that weight off Tommy over the years and you just keep getting stuck in the cycle. So, as always, time a great conversation.

00;32;13;03 - 00;32;14;17
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Any final thoughts as we wrap up today?

00;32;15;15 - 00;32;30;18
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, I think I think just just take this information and and take a look at what you're doing, what you're eating and and how long you're fasting intervals are. And just know that now you can go into your next workout into your next meal with a higher level of confidence.

00;32;30;26 - 00;32;46;16
[Tommy Welling]
And if you've been doing these things and you're getting enough protein, you're working out. Consider how long your fasts are. Go download the fast start guide and and start pushing it. If you're especially if you're in like an 18 six or a 16 eight type of window right now, push it to the next step.

00;32;46;25 - 00;32;55;11
[Tommy Welling]
Take the next leap into one meal a day and you'll you might see the scale start to move, and some new results are right around the corner.

00;32;55;20 - 00;33;10;05
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, absolutely. Specifically what you just said there, especially you've been at a plateau and you've just been kind of tired of it. A great place to start. So Tommy, as always, appreciate the conversation. Hopefully, we hit the nail on the head with this one, but it was fun regardless, either way.

00;33;10;13 - 00;33;14;14
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Appreciate all of you listening. And Tommy, we'll talk soon. Thank you, sir.

00;33;14;26 - 00;33;30;14
[Tommy Welling]
Thank you. Bye. So you've heard today's episode, and you may be wondering, where do I start? Head on over to the Fasting for Life dot com and sign up for our newsletter, where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life.

00;33;31;07 - 00;33;46;09
[Dr. Scott Watier]
While you're there. Download your free fast start guide to get started today. Don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to leave us a five star review, and we'll be back next week with another episode of Fasting for Life and.

 

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