In today’s episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy explore how fasting has transformed their lives and share actionable steps. They review a study comparing intermittent fasting plus early time-restricted eating with calorie restriction for at-risk individuals. The importance of consistent fasting strategies, even small decisions adding up over time, and much more.
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Fasting For Life Ep. 190 Transcript
Hello. I'm Dr. Scott Watier.
And I'm Tommy Welling.
And you're listening to the Fast
and for Life podcast.
This podcast is about using fasting
as a tool to regain
your health, achieve ultimate wellness,
and live the life you truly deserve.
Each episode is a short conversation
on a single topic
with immediate, actionable steps.
We cover everything from fat
loss on health and wellness
to the science of lifestyle design.
We started fasting for life because of how
fasting has transformed our lives
and we hope to share the tools
that we have learned along the way.
welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast.
My name is Dr.
Scott Water and I'm here as always,
and with good friend and colleague
Good afternoon to you, sir.
Hey, Scott, how are you doing?
Fantastic, my friend.
Excited for today's conversation.
We're going to be diving in
to a little bit different of an article
that we've seen, a couple of markers
that we've never talked about before.
And it's a recent article
that was published in April of 2023.
So just a couple of months back.
And it is intermittent fasting
plus early time restricted
eating versus calorie restriction
and standard care in adults.
This is the part that I love at
risk of type
a randomized controlled trial. So
it's going to be exciting conversation.
We're going to talk about
some actionable things
and some basic things that you can do
to put into your day to day efforts
when it comes to fasting
and adopting a fasting lifestyle.
If you are new to the podcast, welcome in
and thank you for giving us a shot.
If you want to learn more about Tommy,
you want to learn more about me.
You want to learn more about how fasting
has transformed our lives,
you can head back to episode one
and give it a listen.
We asked for a little bit of grace
because that was a long time ago.
rapidly approaching 3 million downloads.
So if you are new, you're
joining a movement with some momentum.
If you're an OG,
someone that's been listening
or part of the fasting for life
fam for a while now, we appreciate you
continuing to listen and like and share,
subscribe, review all of those things
that I don't fully understand.
But when you do that tells
the podcast world that we are bringing
value to the listeners each and every week
and we're just appreciative for you
being here with us.
So Tommy, as we hop into this article,
plus early time restricted
eating versus calorie restriction,
the biggest thing that stood out,
we had to double and triple and quadruple
check our records to be like, Wait
a minute, have we done this one before?
Because we've by now we've talked a lot
about time restricting and intermittent
fasting and diabetes
and calorie restriction, right?
So we're the mediators standing in between
the while calories matter.
No, insulin matters,
no hormones matter, No macros matter.
Yeah, genetics matter.
My food choices matter, right? Yeah.
We're typically swatting
all of that stuff away.
I like to think that we have
a moderate approach
when it comes to adopting
a fasting lifestyle.
We could all.
And as I said in the coaching group,
I'll tell you what that means in a second.
Inside of one of our coaching calls
recently where I was like, Listen,
if the scale is not moving,
then just fast.
If you stopped eating today and didn't
eat for a week,
what's the scale going to do?
Well, yeah, it's going to move, right?
But is that a long term
sustainable plan now?
longest recorded fast in history,
lost 272 or £4,
his life, extended his life.
And this was way back in the day
when before black and white TV
been around for a while, was my point.
So we had to think, Man,
have we talked about this article before?
And we didn't
because the thing that stood out to me
first and foremost was at risk.
So these folks were at risk.
This was me years before in leading up to
when I found fasting,
standing in your kitchen,
I had done some fasting, but I didn't do
the fasting that you were doing.
And definitely didn't
do the fasting that we now recommend
or do and talked about on this podcast.
Yeah, true, because the thing for us was
we need to regain our health.
My numbers were off.
I was feeling like crap.
I had insulin resistance, didn't
even know what that was, Didn't even know
that was a blood test you could order.
My blood pressure was slightly elevated.
Elevated liver enzymes were slightly off.
Couldn't really ever get the midsection
People like, Oh,
you must not have been that compliant.
No, I was tracking and weighing
and hiring world renowned
nutritionist here locally in Houston
and having multiple degrees between
my wife and I just couldn't figure it out.
Functional medicine, testing,
FDA ends, you name it.
And then came into the
Yeah and then came into the picture.
Well, your blood sugar is normal,
but have we looked upstream?
Have we looked at insulin?
And the answer was no.
So I love this study
because it talks about the at risk group.
And right now, yeah,
that is the silent epidemic.
The obesity epidemic is real.
It's growing literally and figuratively.
It is directly linked to increased
loss of life
and metabolic issues and cardiovascular
and heart disease problems.
The cost of care for
for diabetes right now is incredibly high.
And we want you to know
that you have a choice.
But the at risk population,
which depending on where you look,
can be anywhere from 80
to 100 million Americans.
Hmm. Never mind. Worldwide.
So I love that this study is going to
look at fasting and its kind of fasting.
We'll talk about that
in a second. Sporadic fasting.
Yeah, could be better.
Fasting could be better. Fasting.
Fasting with room for improvement.
There you go.
Compared to calorie restriction,
which is just Google calorie restriction.
You guys have all done it. Here's
your calorie deficit.
Go ahead, your calories,
track your macros,
weigh your food, work, eat less,
Yeah, so quickly
you're going to lose the weight.
That's why I love this to begin with
is because it's
talking about the at risk category.
And that's the largest category of people
that are probably
making an effort to get healthier
and lose the weight for good.
You know what's also interesting,
whenever we look at these, typically
the studies that that look at intermittent
fasting versus caloric restriction,
they don't tend to have just sweeping
differences in the amount of weight
that was lost in the maybe 60
or maybe 90 days or
even in this study
like over the six month period.
But it gets very interesting
when the studies actually
look at something deeper,
something like you alluded to,
something upstream or something
a little bit a few layers
deep like insulin levels
or like actual blood
glucose levels or elevation of blood
glucose over time.
How long did it stay high,
which that's going to directly affect
things like an A-1 C test later on and
other things that are even more important
that we're going to talk about as well.
And that's where the rubber really meets
the road, because whether or not
your weight is actually changing over time
or if you hit your forever
number yet or whatever the case may be.
As far as weight,
there's a whole lot of other things
that are going on under the hood
that are much better
predictors of long term health outcomes
and are going to matter
at least just as much as that weight,
if not more, probably more
if we're if we're actually
aimed in the right direction,
like looking at the right metrics.
They even say in here,
they go through so many studies
and they look at better analysis compared.
I have to see R like you just mentioned,
weight loss is typically the main metric.
They find a lot of similarities
between the time restricted feeding groups
and the calorie restriction groups.
Yeah, they found only two trials
that have been powered to assess
which they talk about.
And no studies have been powered for
postprandial assessments of blood sugar.
And that's what
we're going to talk about today,
which is the second thing
that attracted us to the study,
which is the time that you have
elevated blood sugar in your body.
Yeah, right after you eat. Yeah.
Which means you have
the elevated insulin, the amount of time
that insulin is elevated in your body.
So in a lot of the other studies
and we've talked
about probably all of them,
I remember the one back in January
when we dropped the blueprint
of fasting for fat loss.
It was six in four hour for six
and ten hour eating windows, I believe.
And they were looking at differences
and a lot of the similarities
were the same and weight loss.
But the fat free mass was better.
The insulin resistance or the insulin
sensitivity number was better,
the blood pressure numbers were better,
the waist circumference was better,
typically in the fasting groups.
And that's what they found here as well.
But this concept and visually,
I want you to think about it
like if you go back to geometry
or trigonometry class
sine waves and the x y axis
is in calculus and algebra, right?
So a lot of fun.
there's no math test at the end of today
because I would fail it still.
But that time or that area,
like if you colored it
in under those curves that you're
envisioning like the sine wave, right.
Or a bell curve is a more cleaner way
to think about this.
You've seen a bell curve, right? Yeah.
That time under the curve is when you eat
your body has a natural response
to elevate blood sugar. That's fine.
What we want is to decrease
the amount of area
under that curve over a long time
periods over lifespans.
that's a great way to think about it,
because you can decrease
that area under the curve by either
dropping the height of the peak
of the elevation of your blood sugar
or decreasing the amount of time
like that would be the x axis.
If you decrease the amount of time
that it takes for it
to return back to normal levels.
Or you could potentially do both.
But either one of those things
is going to reduce
the area under the curve and overall
that's going to mean, you know,
for example, lower HBA one C,
which is your
your rolling moving average of 90 days
worth of blood sugar markers.
So just one way to think about it.
So the area under the curve in this study
decreased more in the fasting group.
And we're going to unpack that
in just a second.
But I want to just hit on this
a little bit more.
Is in a normal population
non-diabetic, non pre-diabetic,
you want to eat and see a 30 to 40 point
blood sugar spike
and then it returned to normal or baseline
within 2 to 3 hours.
For diabetics, that number can be as high
as 180 Post-Meal within 2 to 3 hours.
Hmm. I'd like to see it
definitely under that 140 mark,
but that's just keeping the numbers
between the field goalposts, so to speak.
So you're going to have an elevator
a time when you have excess blood sugar
floating around in your bloodstream.
It's damaging to optic nerves, it's
damaging to tissues and muscles.
It's damaging to important organs
and organ systems.
The liver, the liver specifically.
We know that having elevated blood
sugar is now about sometimes fatal,
if not caught.
When your blood sugar gets too high.
I had a friend who was diagnosed with type
way back in the day,
and when he went to driven Self
to the emergency room
as blood sugar was 800.
Wow. And they looked at him in the like,
How are you standing here?
They're like, What?
He didn't know, right?
So thankfully he made it.
And now he's been managing ever since
and he's doing great.
And actually he's been fasting
a little bit too, which is fantastic.
And he's noticed that he's been able
to reduce his insulin as a type one
because his area under the curve is better
because his area under the curve.
So the results here were were were pretty
I mean, two and a half times better.
So just imagine that curve being that area
under the curve, colored in visually,
right in your mind, that area of the curve
being two and a half times less,
which means two and a half times less
insulin being elevated,
which means less insulin resistance,
which means less potential
for cardiometabolic issues
and diagnoses and medications
and all of the factors that come along
with this insulin resistance component.
resistance can be in very distant terms,
synonymous with weight loss resistance.
If your body is resistant
to losing the way.
I love that.
There's a couple of other metrics
that we'll get to in just a second
that we have never talked about before.
And those things also were needle movers
in the secondary outcomes of the study.
Yeah, and because when you get a better
area under the curve for glucose,
it leads right in to your pancreas
and your liver,
which are going to make a determination on
what else needs to happen biochemically.
And what you're going to see is you're
going to see less of an insulin response,
which is a really, really good thing
because the higher our insulin response,
the higher risk for cardio metabolic
disease, but also the more likely it
is that we go into fat storage mode,
which we generally speaking do not want.
So this study also showed an improvement,
a greater improvement in the time
restricted eating group for insulin area
under the curve as well,
which we don't see studied very often.
And then that led directly to a decrease
in the non
fatty acid area under the curve as well.
And the non-certified fatty acids,
this is something we haven't talked
about as a biomarker yet,
but they've been known to mediate many
adverse metabolic effects, most notably.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
so elevated nivea's in obesity
are thought to arise
from an increased adipose tissue mass.
So you have this metabolically active.
We talked about this multiple time
You have this metabolically active tissue.
It's your fat.
Your fat is causing you to continue
to be fat and struggle with losing weight.
It's like just like I picture it like
little fat cells with devil ears on it.
It's argued that the process
of fatty acid mobilization from adipose
is normally suppressed by insulin itself
becomes insulin resistant.
So thus lipolysis or the breakdown of fat
is actually further increase.
It's hindered potentially leading
to a vicious cycle where you want to see
these differs to be decreased over time
and differ in obesity insulin resistance.
That relationship right
is still being invested in.
But for sure we know that decreased
Nivea is a good thing.
And this study is the first one
that we've come across to actually show
that with, again, room
for improvement fasting, right?
because you basically
you look at all of these curves
and they all kind of like
you know, you have a you have a spike
after a meal and then it comes down.
But it all matters how quickly
things are working, how efficiently
they're working to bring these spikes down
after the meal like
this is a really good pulse on on
how efficiently the system is working.
And when we get into like how these
studies are, how this study particularly
was was designed for the fasting,
it was definitely very on and off.
And so I love the fact
that there was basically
an equal improvement in weight
for both these groups.
But then you had the area under the curve
substantially improving for the time
restricted eating group and this, this
time restricted eating was was just okay.
One day we're going to have 30%
of our calories coming in between 8 a.m.
and 12 p.m..
And then we're going to go into a 20
hour fast going into the next day.
So that basically saying
they're doing nonconsecutive days,
so like three days
a week doing a 20 hour fast.
So every other day, fairly inconsistent
because those other days were just kind of
ad libitum, you know, feasting.
They weren't even putting, you know,
much of a risk zero at all there.
So you could essentially be you
Yeah, you could you could
definitely be undoing some, you know,
caloric restriction or some insulin
sensitivity improvement from day to day.
But it turns out over the six months
they weren't undoing all of that.
They were making some powerful progress,
even though they were kind of
on the same track as far as weight loss.
But this reminds me of like almost,
the term that we don't really like
very much, which is skinny fat,
because if you could,
you could be decreasing in weight.
But at the same time,
if if your biomarkers aren't improving
or your insulin resistance is
is getting worse
or maybe staying the same
rather than improving,
I'd rather have the weight loss
with the biomarker improvement, obviously.
You know, so if there's a way to tell,
I'd rather have the scale
say the same like in all the other,
a lot of the research we've we've noticed
the biomarkers improve, right?
Give me the same weight
but better blood chemistry all day
because that I mean, that's
going to be a better quality
of life, better longevity for sure.
the scale will start to move as well.
So this fasting window, right,
So nonconsecutive days
of doing a 20 hour fast.
One thing I did like,
and this is something
we've been leaning towards more recently,
is that they put it in the morning
so they that the consumption of the food
was earlier in their eating
when they're between eight and 12 love
that is a very common fasting
mistake is picking one fasting window
in the evening
and sticking with that expecting
that to be your golden egg.
The goose that laid the golden egg, right?
Like I put you that analogy.
You know what I'm trying to say?
The magic bullet, it's it's hard to close
that evening window sometimes,
if you have a lot of bad habits.
So I liked that they did that.
And I like that they were studying time
restricted versus calorie restriction.
They had a good control group
and they were looking at it in at risk
population and looking at cardio
metabolic health outcomes.
Right? So all positive things.
I just can't believe the results
were that good in Nonconsecutive,
but just yeah, I don't know, man.
I did some fasting early on, very poorly
and I don't know
if I would have gotten these results
following the strategy right.
Maybe you weren't you,
you didn't even notice.
But that's right.
Because you didn't have the feedback.
Maybe looking at the scale, it was like,
well, this obviously is at all right.
Maybe slowly it was making some progress
that you were unaware of, too.
So the important outcome is the area under
the curve decreased more in the time
restricted eating group,
the insulin decreased in the time
restricted feeding group,
and with the area under the curve right
there, go hand in hand.
Yeah, the non certified fatty acids
the knife is were lower
than in the control group. Right.
And then cardiovascular risk factors
for liver health, fasting, triglycerides
And there's this movement right now
where LDL is labeled the bad cholesterol.
Right. LDL bad cholesterol. Right.
not really alone in its own singular.
You know, if you're just looking at LDL
as a marker that's going to be related
to cardiovascular issues, heart disease
and stroke, etc., alone, it's not bad.
when you have elevated triglycerides.
So guess what?
The triglycerides in
this could be improved fasting strategy
that got great results with area
under the curve for blood
sugar and insulin and differs right
decreased triglycerides, which means okay
now we're starting to move
the needle on metrics
like because that triglyceride
to HDL ratio much more important
and lower triglycerides.
If you do have slightly elevated LDL.
The last one that was really cool that we
had not spoken about yet on this podcast
is a liver marker of liver function,
and it's beta exosome in today's.
And some of the stuff
that we found uncovering the connections
here in the research, Tommy, in terms of
other diseases was really powerful.
Yeah, it really was,
because I had never heard of,
of Beta Hicks also many days as late
as a market, which I'm starting, right?
No, I'm not even going to try.
I got, I got was so Yeah,
but you know, just to everybody's ears.
No it's, it's been shown it's
elevated in people with diabetes,
with Alzheimer's disease
as well as other age related diseases.
But, you know, like you said, it's
a clinical marker of liver health,
which we know is is very important
in prediabetes in in anabolic function,
in healthy and at all flexibility.
Yeah, Yeah, it's huge.
And we need all the liver function
we can get
if we're looking to lose weight as well
because the liver is going to be
your biochemical powerhouse
is going to determine,
am I in sugar burning mode,
Am I in fat burning mode?
You know, what am my blood
markers actually look like?
So the cool thing about that factor,
that biomarker was that we saw over
two and a half times improvement
in the time restricted eating group versus
the calorie restriction group
in improvements in beta hicks
on some studies at six months out,
even though the weight loss was the same.
So once again, just a huge,
massive improvement in an important marker
when you couldn't tell that
that was happening on the scale here.
But to me the scale didn't move.
I don't care,
I don't throw it out, throw at you.
So I know
we're being a little cheeky here,
but this is part of what it is that we
You can't do the same thing
as everybody else and expect the results
to be different.
And for me, this really hits home
with the My blood sugar
numbers were still within normal range.
My fasting insulin was in the low
It's now under seven. Big difference
Yeah, years of feeling forward but
glucose metabolism is what we want.
We want that flexibility to be able to
enjoy life, eat some of the foods we love,
have the date nights in the celebrations
and not have to worry about the dang cycle
all the time.
And that's why we feel
fasting is so powerful.
So we love this study.
It talks about a couple of needle movers
in terms of metabolic health
and and beta hexum in the days and area
under the curves and things that we really
and haven't talked about before.
But again, I just want to highlight
that there were changes
in the other metrics
like fat free mass and all that
and that were very similar
to caloric restriction.
Yeah, but this was done with three
nonconsecutive 20 hour fast days
and completely no guidance
on the other days in question
on what to eat.
Just normal habitual lifestyle stuff.
So I really like that
they did follow ups here
and there are a lot of similarities
in the follow ups at 12 months,
but one thing that did stand out to me
is that the Calorie Restriction group
showed a better adherence at 18 months.
And what I find interesting about
that is my gut feeling on
that is because initially
they both were like, all right,
and 97% of calorie restriction were like,
Yeah, I'm going to keep doing this.
Right. I've seen some weight loss.
Yeah, the tree guys
didn't know that They were like
making all these other changes as well,
guys and gals.
But the change farther away
you get from baseline to that 18 month
mark I just believe is that calorie
restriction is so much more RC mainstream
but like you've got your
my fitness pals in your apps
and people are on diets off diets
it fits more of that diet culture
I don't want to call it flippant
very just pick a couple of days a week
you can do a 20 hour fast
and then the rest time
do whatever you want
isn't really strategic
for long term success.
And that's why we we really
talk about finding fasting
schedules and routines that fit your life,
fit your lifestyle,
fit your calendar, fit your date nights
and celebrations and travel and vacation,
but put some structure to it
the rest of the time.
That way it always feels like you're more
or less on track
or yeah, you're
you're in a fasting lifestyle.
At that point, it's easy to see yourself,
you self-image kind of changes to it,
to adjust like I am a faster
not just like, oh yeah, I'm
using fasting right now as my diet plan.
You know, that was the difference
that I kind of heard right there,
because if you told me like, Oh,
just do whatever you want every other day.
And then and then the one day there was,
there was basically just,
you know, kind of like one or two things
that I needed to do.
And I wasn't seeing the scale move.
I mean, it would really feel like, what?
Why am I why am I even thinking about it
on the on the quote unquote, on days
like, like prove it.
Like, prove that it's worth doing,
But I mean,
the proof is in in the data here.
But I do like having a little
bit more structure to it because
even if you're just, you know, maintaining
the weight loss that you've had or you're
you're at a good, healthy weight
and you know, you want to improve
some biomarkers or or whatever it might be
just finding something that that is
part of your fasting schedule,
like maybe it's an 18 six or maybe it's
more like the warrior, like 24,
but you're able to to relatively
like commit to it on, on most days.
It doesn't have to be 100%
right, 100% of the days.
But if you have something
as like a baseline or kind of a fallback,
this is what I'm usually doing
most of the time,
then I mean that you've kind of started,
putting the framework for your fasting
lifestyle, you know, right there.
Right. So two more things.
So that was one negative.
I was like, Oh, that was interesting
about the the ability to stick to it.
I just think you need a little bit
with your fasting efforts, right?
Yeah, Grab the fasting, the blueprint,
the fasting for fat loss in the show
notes will give you some structure,
give you some ideas.
I did notice that cardiovascular risk too.
There was a better systolic blood pressure
in the time restricted eating.
That's something that we hear very often.
And the one more thing.
So so we don't get accused of cherry
So like, oh, you guys are only hitting
all the good stuff, right?
there are some limitations
with the TRT group,
but this is something that we hear
quite often and we talk all the time about
is prioritizing protein,
because when they looked at physical
activity and self-reported dietary intake,
the self-reported energy
intake was modestly lower.
And the TRT versus
the calorie restriction at month two
and fiber intakes were also lower.
And this is one of those things.
So if they were told to
only eat 30% of your intake,
how many people are just going to eat
like a steak?
Yeah, like a piece of meat.
Usually your default
would just be to shrink the meal like.
Yeah. Really? Yeah. Right. Put it, honey.
I shrunk the kids.
Put it in the machine right here.
It is smaller. Right?
So we we really talk a lot about this too.
Is that okay?
You are going to get a better Claud
burn more blood sugar
stability and satiety
from a higher protein meal.
And of course, it's better for lean
and retaining that lean muscle tissue.
So, yeah, just a couple of things.
I was like, Oh, you know what?
That's really interesting
that they mentioned that.
And that's something that we see,
you know, inside of a lot of inside
of our challenges,
inside of the coaching group as well.
So yeah, what I heard that what I heard
there was if I'm going from 100% of
my caloric needs down to a 30%,
then rather than shrinking
all of the portions of my plate
that protein, putting that protein
has like the first big checkbox.
And you know, maybe if I was only doing
or maybe it'd be more
more or less like 5050
between fat and protein.
And then I'd leave the carbs behind for
for that day and really,
like increase the efficiency
and the burn and my satiety
when only a fraction of my calories
are coming in that day.
That's what I would personally do.
And I just think back to when I was
and my my labs are ticking up.
My liver enzymes are slightly off.
My blood sugar was still the normal.
I'm sitting there.
I did some kido and intermittent fasting.
And then that stopped working
and I was doing our piece, drank templates
and then hired the nutritionist.
And I was just like, Man,
you know, the biggest thing
that I was missing,
which is why one of the things
that we really that stood out to us
about the study, the fasting windows
that could be improved upon, Right.
Mm. I just wasn't being consistent
enough with my effort.
So if you're over,
you're going off fasting.
I could never do that
then great, go do calorie restriction
and lose the weight,
but do something right?
We just find that fasting also taps
into those additional benefits as well.
As for me, it was hunger,
hormones and relationship with food
and whole snacking and all that stuff too.
So I just really like this study.
I love the outcomes.
study design was pretty good overall
and it's something, you know,
in terms of the offers in the heck's
awesome in the days that we have
never really talked about before.
But again, just other things.
Your is inherently smart.
Fasting has been around for forever
since the dawn of time, so why not lean on
something that is tried and true?
Well, you're going to have to practice,
going to have to get some repetitions.
And that's why we have the challenges
and the blueprint
and the resources in this podcast.
We really want you to take one
or two things away
and just go now, take a different action,
put a little more planning
into your mealtime.
If you're thinking,
Oh, I'll just start tomorrow,
I'll just start over the weekend.
No, a randomized, haphazard, 24 hour fast,
three times a week
is better than nothing.
dash for our fast
now start Today
you have the opportunity
to just make a decision in the moment
and you are going to be getting
all of these benefits.
It's really, really cool.
The area under the curve study matters.
What it highlights to me
is the small decisions matter
because it's the area under the curve.
It's those time between the fastest times,
between your meals.
When your numbers,
your average numbers are being calculated
right in during all those times
when you're not even thinking about it
between when you're sleeping,
before you wake up your your fasting
glucose, there's time between the meals.
So if you don't have your fasting timer
set right now, set it.
If it's meal time right now,
make one better food decision right now
during this meal time
and then set your next fasting timer.
Because each one of those decisions
is going to add up to small improvements
that are going to add up over time.
So absolutely get started.
Right now you're looking for more support
in head to the show notes,
grab the blueprint.
Fasting for fat loss
free resource, 20 pages.
We we're pretty biased
but we think it's pretty good.
And then you can also head
to the fasting for life
community is our private Facebook
group of like minded fellow fasters
where we break the fasting
rule number one and number two
which is don't talk about fasting
and don't talk about fasting
all we do in
that group is talk about fasting.
So come on in waters
warm up, see on the inside.
Tommie, as always,
thanks for the conversation.
We'll talk soon. Thank you. Bye.
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