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In today’s episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss chrono nutrition practices and weight loss, setting your fasting timer, time-restricted eating and the "ideal" fasting schedule, focusing on what you can control and much more
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Fasting For Life Ep. 187 Transcript
Hello. I'm Dr. Scott Watier.
And I'm Tommy Welling.
listening to the Fasting for Life podcast.
This podcast is about using fasting
as a tool to regain
your health, achieve ultimate wellness,
and live the life you truly deserve.
Each episode is a short conversation
on a single topic
with immediate, actionable steps.
We cover everything from fat loss
and health and wellness
to the science of lifestyle design.
We started fasting for life because of how
fasting has transformed our lives
and we hope to share the tools
that we have learned along the way.
Hey everyone, want to hop on real quick
before we get into today's episode
and let you all know that
the next fasting challenge is upon us.
It's coming up on July 26th
through August 1st,
and we are calling this one Master
Your Fasting Challenge a VIP experience.
So it's a little different twist
on the previous challenges that we've run,
but we have been doing this
for long enough
now that we're starting to see some trends
in what makes a successful
fasting lifestyle stick.
So during the seven days that you spend
we're going to be leveling up your fasting
We're going to be talking about mindset
and habit formation and how to make
fasting a viable solution
to your weight and health goals.
So don't miss out.
Head to the show notes
for more information.
Dates, Times Frequently asked questions
in the show Notes head there.
Now click the link.
We absolutely want to see
you get the best results
that you possibly can
through your fasting efforts
and this master of fasting challenge
VIP experience is going to deliver.
We can guarantee that.
So head to the shownotes, click the link
and we'll see you on the inside.
Now to today's episode.
welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast.
My name is Dr.
Scott Water and I'm here as always on
my good friend and colleague, Tom Welling.
Good afternoon to you, sir.
Hey, Scott, how are you doing?
Fantastic, my friend.
Excited for today's conversation.
We're going to take a different tact
or a different approach
or a different viewpoint from the age
old question that we get
oh so often is, Hey, I've been fasting,
I want to lose weight.
What's the best fast eating schedule?
What schedule should I follow?
I've tried some.
I'm intermittently intermittent fasting.
I've tried some this, I've tried some not.
like what is the best fasting schedule?
So we're going to tap into it coming from
a little different perspective today
and we're going to talk a lot
about one of the main drivers
of insulin and weight loss resistance,
which then drives metabolic syndrome
and cardiometabolic issues and disease
processes, lifestyle disease processes
here in the United States specifically.
And now we're starting to see it
all across the world.
But this topic of sleep
and how it affects our food choices
and our activity levels and our mindset
and our fasting window.
So that being said,
welcome into today's episode.
We're going to reference
some articles as well.
They'll be in the show notes.
If you want to click those
and dive a little bit deeper.
But we want to leave you
with something actionable as well.
So if you're a first time listener,
each and every episode,
we try to leave you with one
or two main action steps that you can do
to adopt a fasting lifestyle,
lose the weight for good,
improve those blood markers, reverse
those disease processes
and improve your quality of life.
That is why we call it fasting for life
and a lifestyle adaptation.
So welcome in.
If you want to hear more
about Tommy and his journey
and how fasting has transformed our lives
and why we come to you
each and every week with an episode.
Because we are on a mission to empower
people that they can lose the weight once
and for all, regain their health,
and that they are in complete control.
That you have a choice
when it comes to your lifestyle
and the results that you get in fasting.
we hash out how it how it worked for us.
And then all along
this journey of 100, 180
plus episodes, we unpack all the nuanced,
cool things that we like, some research,
some lifestyle, some questions.
So welcome in. Head back to episode one.
If you're a new listener, check it out.
About 30 minutes.
We just ask you for a little bit of grace
because it was our first episode
that we ever did.
So yeah, you're a long term listener.
And hopefully today's conversation
just hits a little bit different
when it comes to answering that age
What's the best fasting schedule?
Tommy Yeah, I'm
still trying to figure that one out now.
Yeah, right, right, right.
It's such a common question.
No, I still get it. Like, like day to day.
People will ask me that all the time.
Like, hey, you know,
I heard about the whole fasting thing.
What's the what's the best one to do?
What you just identified in public
the other day is
like the fasting guy by someone,
or is that a friend
or was that you or is that,
is that you? Those.
Yeah, yeah, I have a couple of times.
And my wife too, like at the gym
a couple of times.
That's one of the places.
Yeah. Yeah. Out in the grocery system.
Rules of fasting.
Yeah right. Yeah.
So you know it's, it's a lot of fun
because most people have heard something
about fasting at this point.
But at the same time,
there's so many questions
because, you know, there's
so many different ways to just get a cat,
as they say.
There's there's a lot of different angles
and and different ways to look at it.
So when we talk about
what the best schedule is, literally
the best schedule today
is, is whichever one I'm going to be able
to to do today and to stick to
and to make a hard line in the sand
a good, solid decision
that I'm committed to.
That's my best decision for today.
And let's not worry about my best decision
let alone a week or a month
or a year from now.
So let's let's stop
trying to have like a one size fits all.
This is the best one. This is the only one
I'm ever going to need.
And then let me just worry
about making a decision today,
because sometimes if I get too concerned
about tomorrow or next year,
I'm really just procrastinating.
The important decision that I need to make
right now, today and the stick with it.
So semi, all that are listening
might be thinking, Oh,
they're not going to answer the question,
what's the best fasting schedule
if you're looking for fasting schedules?
We have a spreadsheet that has over
Talk about obsessing back in the day,
all the schedules, the solution.
No, it's the application of the schedule.
That's the solution
that you were just alluding to. Yeah.
So we do have a handful of schedules
that we follow that we find that work well
And but here's the thing there in
the blueprint, the fasting for fat loss.
So go ahead and head to the shownotes,
click the link, download it.
We give you different fasting schedules,
how to ramp up your fasting efforts
if you're new or if you've fallen off
track, how to increase those fasting
windows, etc. So it's a free resource.
Inside the show notes, just click the link
and we'll zoom it over into your inbox.
So Tommie, today's conversation
about what's the ideal fasting schedule
and this this connection
to sleep and stress and food.
And for, for me it was the trifecta.
So I had insulin resistance,
so I had hormonal imbalances, right?
So I had insulin, which is out of whack
but wasn't coming up on any other
But my blood pressure was high,
my cholesterol's low.
I wasn't feeling good at the big belly
even though I could,
you know, lift a bunch of weights
and do a lot of CrossFit workouts.
Sure, they went. She was good.
Everyone seemed to go,
Oh yeah, fasting
blood sugar was still good,
but I was still not able to lose weight
and keep it off.
And, you know, stuff started ticking up
and into the mid thirties,
into the late thirties
and then sleep
and stress were the other two.
So these are drivers
of insulin resistance.
So you don't realize
how much a poor night of sleep
can affect your food choices,
your cravings, your hormones, etc.
your body's glucose tolerance
or insulin sensitivity
just based on poor sleep.
So there's an article
that came across our purview
and it was based on chrono
nutrition practices and weight loss.
So we had to go
look up like what is chronotype?
What are they?
And the study that came across
it was interesting because it was
there wasn't like a big holy moly
because it was an observational study
in the Journal of Chronobiology
and it was the improvement in Chrono
Nutrition is associated
with robust weight loss outcomes,
an extension of a feasibility study.
So it was a follow up from this
big feasibility study that was done
and it's looking at nutrition
or timing of meals
based off of your Chronotype
Now, Chronotype, to me,
they've been studied since the 1970s
and we want to talk more about
the underlying driver of Chronotype
because Chronotype is kind of like the
the personality type
of your sleeping behaviors.
So either you're or love language
like what you look like.
You're like it's the it's
the psychological application of right?
So it's okay.
It's not something that I know a lot about
or have done, like research
a lot, right? I just know that there's
four different types, right?
And they're based on animals.
They're based on your yeah, you're
an early bird or you're a night owl, like.
Right. That kind of. Yeah, Yeah.
But it's really it's more like a spectrum
kind of depending on where you fall.
I don't want to talk about sure
but I want to talk
about is the emerging evidence
and this is from the Sleep Foundation
dot org shows that your chronotype
likely has a strong genetic component
among other things, having a longer
allele on the pr3 circadian clock g
interesting is related to the morning
or morning type awake alert
in the morning, pop right out of bed.
That's me. Wow.
And then if you have a shorter Leo, then
you kind of fall into one of those
other categories of Chronotype Right?
So the point of this
is that the underlying relationship
to the circadian rhythm
or the circadian clock and we've done
episodes before on shift work,
you know, in how the increased
risk of cardiovascular issues and disease
processes, just based on the fact
that you're sleeping opposite
of when the sun is up or trying to
or trying to adapt,
you live like not a zombie, right?
Yeah, you're you're basically like
kicking out one of the legs of the
the three legged stool for, you know,
and maintaining control over that.
You're like kicking out one of the legs,
which is like, you may not have a choice
when that happens
or the fact that you're a shift worker,
you can't just adjust your schedule
So understanding that
and what the implications
are for my insulin sensitivity
and or resistance means
I'm going to need
to get my fasting timer right
and I'm going to need to get my plates
Most of the time because I'm not going
to get sleep right most of the time.
So I had better be on point
with those other ones.
Yep. And the research shows it like
they've come up with questionnaires
about this circadian rhythm
And the morning evening news questionnaire
and the Munich Chronotype questionnaire.
And they each have their different angles
and their in their really just trying to
elucidate or shine some light
on your basic behavioral patterns.
And the fact that they found relationships
between that and underlying
due to sleep deprivation or,
you know, sleep apnea, obesity, type two
diabetes, metabolic syndromes in people
that tend to be more in the evening
category or the evening Chronotype.
So sleep hygiene, circadian rhythm
all relates back to this observational
study that had a couple of cool takeaways,
but it's an observational study,
so we're not going to put it up there
in the gold standard category of, well,
like super impactful outcomes.
But there were some cool takeaways
from this that can relate directly
back to what you were just talking about,
which is when should I set my timer?
What can I expect
after a night of indulgence or some poor
food choices or a night of poor sleep?
Or do you always feel like you're
just setting your timer
for dinner all mad
and you're not making any progress?
Because we hear a lot from people, Hey,
this is what I'm doing.
Why wasn't working
and why isn't it working now?
Dinner matters is tricky too,
but back up a step, because
if you are in the dinner mad
and that's that's your comfort zone
what you've been doing for a little while,
are you still setting your timer
or did you give up making a decision
And then it's kind of like,
Oh, it's kind of automatic.
You know, or has slippage come in?
Has your comfort zone expanded to a point
where it's kind of like, Yeah, I'm
very comfortable with this.
But then at the same time, I'm no longer
paying attention to some of the details,
so I'm not as careful about them
because that it might not necessarily
be a plateau, it might be slippage
that you didn't necessarily realize.
That happened to me several times
and it was like it can take a little while
to to kind of understand that.
So even just knowing like
if you're more active and alert earlier
in the day versus later in the day,
because if you have trouble
with sleep hygiene and really like
getting a good night's sleep
and and having like sleep discipline,
if that's kind of out of the realm
of how you think, then
you might fall into the category
of more likely to have dinner.
It might be a later dinner.
And then is that when some of your worst
foods come into play because it's either,
you know, eating out
or fast food or something like that,
or is it a slippery slope,
sweet and salty.
Later in the evening
because the the insulin spike, let alone
the the other things like caloric density
that comes in later,
those are going to be adding to to my
my long term fat source and can be very,
to tap back into at some point
because those calories weren't
needed during the day
and the rest or lack thereof
that I get going into tomorrow
means I might not have a lot of energy
to burn those off tomorrow either.
So where's where's my time?
When am I going to get a chance to burn
That can be a problem
that compounds over time
and it's just really kind of figuring out
the puzzle pieces
for you as a long term solution.
Because fasting is powerful,
it adapts to any lifestyle.
I mean, it's really the most fluid
type approach in our opinion to Yeah,
so why we love.
Yeah, because it just simplifies
once you get some reps,
it simplifies your day to day.
So a couple of cool outcomes
from that observational study you just
was that consuming a higher proportion
of total daily energy and protein
intake earlier in the day was associated
with greater weight loss.
So it was a small study, 91 participants,
men either overweight
or obese living in Malaysia.
And the participants in the morning
the kind of nutrition type,
to consume 75% of their calories
and stop by lunch
where the evening chronotype,
based on those circadian rhythm patterns,
were instructed to consume only 60%
of their calories in the early window,
meaning that they conserved
more of their calories later in the day.
And the significance the participants.
So the significant cutoff here
was if it was a success,
if you lost more than 3%
of your initial body weight
and it showed that those results happened
in the early chronotype group,
as well as the higher protein group,
which is something that we've been kind
of diving into more and recommending more,
more frequently for sure.
because as far as the satiation factor,
the insulin or lack of interest
in the lower and yeah, yeah,
absolutely so much more stable
and then thus the the craving stability
or craving reduction and then you know,
especially going into the evening
time like, like I was just speaking about
if your cravings are better controlled,
going into those later evening hours,
especially if you don't have great sleep
hygiene or that's something that you need
to work on or you are working
on, it becomes so much more
so much more doable,
you know, to start working on that.
And what I also found was interesting
was the better results came with within
the groups who were practicing a shorter
daily eating window as well.
So, you know, like because
if you're but hold on, if you're so
that shorter, I just want to highlight
we try so much in the dieting culture
and then you transfer that
into the fasting application,
the fasting lifestyle approach
where we have to be so perfect.
Yes, the shorter daily eating window
was 48 minutes difference. Yeah.
You want to drive yourself crazy,
Focus on that.
We're going to zoom out here
in just a second.
Keep going. 48
minutes, timing each minute.
So, you know, that's versus non success.
Yeah, but I mean, if you think about it,
that could be the difference
between having a 6 p.m.
dinner versus a7pm dinner or a 5 p.m.
you off a 515 versus a 6 p.m..
But on average, like that's, that's enough
to where you're making a difference,
especially in the evening time
when you have higher cumulative insulin
and you're more insulin resistant
getting later into the day,
especially if that's
when you have higher carbohydrates
or maybe there's some alcohol involved
later on in the day
that the physiological effects
are already magnified.
So if you can buy yourself
an additional 48 minutes to process
through some of that evening food before
you're getting into your sleep cycle,
you might have just increased that
by 20 or 30% worth of additional digestive
processing time before you're
trying to go into your sleep cycle.
And as a small and kind of insignificant
as it sounds like, just with my logical,
you know, just thinking about it, like,
oh, that's, that's not going to be enough
to move the needle. Right.
But no, it absolutely is.
It's it's substantial and it's
cumulatively beneficial over time.
Yeah, Well that's that whole 1% better
or towards your goal back end of a year.
So if you're doing that every single night
or if you've had a plateau
and now you're stuck and now you're going
to regress back to the old habits
because man, I'm frustrated
and it's not working anymore.
Mazal, just stop, right? Sure.
You know, and that's that's
why some of the a lot of the
you know, look at the low carb studies
and diabetics at that two year mark.
The weights come back,
plus some HBA one Z's back up again
because it wasn't sustainable.
So there was another article
that was linked in this
and it was food timing, circadian rhythm,
and chrono nutrition.
A systemic review of time restricted
eating is a fact on human health.
So I want to go
big picture here for a second.
When we're looking at
they looked at studies from January 2014
through September 2020, evaluating
the effects of time restricted eating.
So tree on human populations 494
collected, 23 were included for analysis.
They found that an overall adherence
rate to time restricted eating aka
What's the ideal
fasting window was 80% 80%
with an unintentional 20% reduction
in caloric intake.
Wow. So TRT induced an average weight
loss of 3% and a loss of fat mass.
This fat loss was also observed
without any caloric restriction. Wow.
Terry, time restricted eating produced
beneficial metabolic effects
independently of weight loss because we've
we've done a lot of these studies
and talked about them on previous episodes
suggesting an intrinsic effect
based on the realignment of feeding
and the circadian clock.
Terry, is a simple and well-tolerated
simple and well tolerated.
They say diet, lifestyle
that generates many beneficial effects
based on the chrono principles.
More rigorous studies are needed,
however, etc. etc.
that they understand their mechanisms.
I'm over here going well,
if it works, it works.
Continue to do it.
So the encouraging thing here is
if you're still searching for the ideal
you need to try different things.
So we've had this question all the time.
Can I just do. Oh man, sure.
For some people, oh, Matt is going to be
a great weight loss, fat loss strategy.
For some people, MAD isn't going to move
the needle in terms of lifestyle
change or habit change,
or it might be feeding into old patterns
that don't allow you to see the results
you need to see in order
to want to keep going.
It can be maintenance for some,
it can be fat loss.
For others, it's an individualized journey
and that's why the age old question
of what's the best fasting schedule.
Tommy, you said it right from the get go.
It's the one that you know,
you can commit to
and then walking it out is where
the consistency piece comes into play.
And not being afraid that the plan
might need to change at some point,
you know, because I don't change it
every two days either.
That's now or saying don't move it
earlier just based on that
that observational study.
Yeah but if, if dinner time is at 7:00,
try 6:00 for sure.
I was speaking to someone
just a couple of days ago who is
who's kind of going through the same thing
where they were starting to realize that,
oh, my dinner was their comfort zone
and it was family dinner
and it was, you know, social time
sitting around the table
and things like that.
But at the same time, she had begun
to realize that she was more of like
an early riser, like a like
earlier in the day that was more aligned
with her kind of circadian rhythm
and just just her habits.
And that's how she had always been.
And so she said, I've been experimenting
with some breakfast nomads recently
and realized that even though I didn't
used to be like super hungry at breakfast
time, it was still like she was feeling
better all throughout the day.
So she turned her dinnertime
into more of like just the connection.
Now she's in charge of the food and,
you know, it's serving
everybody and things like that.
But she's not generally eating them
and she's feeling better.
And guess what?
All of a sudden,
even though she's not really
eating anything differently,
the scale started moving again.
It's little things like that
where it was kind of counterintuitive
and it was also contradictory
to some of her.
Like, yeah, it was a social pressure,
but like her, her household norms,
just her connection with her family.
But, you know, she had to do something
a little bit different
to start seeing new results.
We hear that sometimes, too,
that dinner's just easier, right?
It's easier if it gets you results.
It's not easier
if you stay stuck where you are.
Yeah. Just feels easier in the moment.
Yeah, it's easier
to handle all of the life stuff, but
it may not be easier for or what
you need to truly move the needle
So yeah, it's not worth it
if I'm beating myself up all day long.
I'm not making any progress
here. Right, Right.
So the encouraging piece here is
step back for a second.
Zoom out. We know tree works.
We know the power of fasting.
has so many more so many additional
I shouldn't say so many more,
but so many additional health benefits.
It's completely transformed our lives.
So many of the people that we talked to,
so many of the messages that we receive
and I had someone recently email in
just from the podcast
because we talk a lot about weight
loss and dieting, culture
and all that kind of stuff,
because trying to lose the weight and
feel more confident and look better in a
in the bathing suit
because it's hotter than the sun down here
in Houston, Texas right now.
I'm still working on that visceral fat
that I got in those last few pounds around
That looks a lot better now.
Four years ago, I'll tell you that.
I'll ask my wife,
but hopefully she would say that.
But we have an email that we send out
where it talks about control, control
what you can control and don't let your
highs be too highs or lows be too low.
So I think I understand
that conceptually. Right.
So this is a story of one of my mentors
or coaches that's talking about
controlling or control
and don't let your highs be too high
or lows be too low or your fasting times
be too long and you're feeding,
feasting times be too great.
But it's a work in progress
to try to figure out that control.
So the same goes for health and weight
Control comes back to you when you value
it, when you focus on it, right?
When you have a plan, when you can have
a mindset that leads to motivation,
that leads to certain methods,
that leads to you mastering the process
that brings control and simplicity
back into your life.
So that was the email that went out,
and this person responded saying,
You know, I have a very specific type
of bipolar disorder
and I, I use fasting
based on my psychiatrist
recommendation and others
that have shown that it can improve mood.
I have I've had multiple serious attempts
in my life of taking my life.
I've had multiple different bouts
with medication and they wrote in saying
focusing on only what I can actually
control is an excellent reminder.
And that's what fasting has done for this
person with the supervision of their doc.
And they say, Thanks for the work you do.
Your reach extends beyond those that
just fast for weight loss.
So if you want to zoom out
and look at the big picture here
and we want to talk about sleep
and circadian rhythm
and lifestyle adaptation
and Chrono Nutrition or Chronotype,
or if you want to go down that rabbit
hole, go for it.
The links are in the
in the podcast episode.
But the takeaway here is that
we need to find something that is
going to fit us that's going to feel right
when we try it on.
And this why I love this concept
of just trying different things
and knowing that it's okay to fail,
but fail forward
to look at that result and know,
hey, okay, this is what I've been doing.
Let's be honest with ourselves.
Is it actually working?
What's the best fasting schedule?
Tell me the one that you know
you can commit to and be consistent
with because that's the one
that's going to get your results.
And if you need to go
look for some ideas because you're stuck
or you don't like that answer, head
to the show notes, click the blueprint.
We give you multiple weeks
of what it looks like
to update your fasting ramp up,
how to increase your fasting times
and some schedules that we find that work
Yeah, Good stuff. Tommy,
any final thoughts?
One final thought
is that in order to make those changes
and to take those steps,
you've got to step off the sideline.
You got to get in the game.
You got a game?
Yeah, You got to make a decision, set
a timer, go for it,
and then see it through to the end
and then see how you feel,
see what the scale does, and, and then set
your next fasting timer and keep going.
So, So get off the sidelines
and take action today.
Love it. Love it. Head to the show notes
If you want to join a like minded
community of fellow fasting for lifers.
There's a Facebook community
link there in as well.
Come and join the conversation with us.
Break the first two rules of fasting
Talk about fasting all the time because
that is, is and who we are and what we do.
Tommy, thanks for the conversation,
as always. We'll talk soon.
Thank you. Bye.
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