Ep. 166 - Listener Q&A | Do you need 24-hr or longer fasts? How to work up to OMAD & beyond | When should you exercise & fast? | Doing great all week, then giving it back every weekend! | Free Intermittent Fasting Plan | Blueprint to Fasting Fat Loss
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Get answers to what breaks a fast, how to break a fast, and tips and tricks to accelerate your fasting wins!
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In today’s timely episode, Dr. Scott and Tommy discuss identifying what is a gratuitous grazer, strategies for keeping consistent, building up to longer fasts, some tips for weekend warriors and much more.
Here is the Fasting Types Episode!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fasting-for-life/id1493613536?i=1000569648879
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Research Reference Links:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36354157/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622182763
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn201390#article-info
Fasting For Life Ep. 166 Transcript
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Hello. I’m Dr. Scott Dr. Watier.
[Tommy Welling]
Tommy Welling. And you're listening to the Fasting for Life podcast.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
This podcast is about using fasting as a tool to regain your health, achieve ultimate wellness, and live the life you truly deserve.
[Tommy Welling]
Each episode is a short conversation on a single topic with immediate, actionable steps. We cover everything from fat loss and health and wellness to the science of lifestyle design.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We started fasting for life because of how fasting has transformed our lives and we hope to share the tools that we have learned along the way. Hey everyone, welcome to the Fasting for Life podcast. My name is Dr. Scott here and I'm here as always. I'm a good friend and colleague. Tom Welling Good afternoon to you, sir.
[Tommy Welling]
Hey, Scott, How are you doing?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Fantastic, my friend. Excited for today's conversation. We have so many great questions that get submitted to us from week to week. And honestly, it's hard to keep up. But we're going to go over some of the biggest ones that we think will apply to the majority of us pastors and us folks that are trying to apply fasting lifestyle.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We're on this journey with you, so we appreciate you listening in and joining us today. We're going to go with some great questions here. And just second one to welcome in the new listeners. If you are new to the Fasting for Life podcast, welcome. Thank you for giving us an opportunity. Yeah. And hopefully you'll get something valuable out of today's conversation.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We always want you to leave with one or two actionable things that you can do to immediately go back and put into your fasting lifestyle. And I did not say into your next fast or into your next nutrition window, right. But actually into the building of a sustainable weight loss and healthy fasting lifestyle. So if you're a long term listener, shout out to you as well.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You are the OGs. We love and appreciate you for following us on this journey in adopting a fasting lifestyle. Thank you all for all of the reviews. We love the five star kind that tells the podcast world and the podcast gods that we are delivering value to you on a weekly basis, and we're going to continue to do so as we traverse 2023.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So Tomi, with that, let's hop into some questions and we're going to reference a couple of previous episodes as well today because there's a lot of questions that are big picture, but then we're also like kind of personalized and customized, and that's what we do inside of our challenges, inside of our coaching group, etc.. But we want to give you some actionable things like we mentioned.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So we're going to start off with a Nets question, and it's a series of questions. One is around the idea of this fasting type, right? So we like to say that you are not a chronic dieter. You have a habit of dieting, right? Yeah. You don't possess the thing that you do, especially when it comes to your habits.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You're not a procrastinator. You have a habit of procrastinating, right? That allows us to disconnect from that being part of our identity and to work on rewiring those habits. So yeah, and that asks a two part question. I am a gratuitous grazer. So we'll talk about what a gratuitous grazer is. Tommy Self proclaimed, You are the ex-president of that club, and we'll talk about that.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You're right. You relinquish that title. Yeah. You've retired it. You've given the belt back as a gratuitous grace. We'll go through that just a little bit. But in episode 133, we actually go over the three fasting types and we define each one, The Weekend Warrior, which we'll talk about here in just a minute through one of the questions that was submitted from Suzanne.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then the fasting freelancer. Right. The one that likes to constantly think they have the willpower to make the decision that's going to serve their long term goal. You moment. I'm speaking from experience on that one. I am the ex-president of that club and I have again relinquished my my title. So and that starts off with how do I keep my schedule as a gratuitous grazer And what are strategies for keeping that schedule front of mind and making it a priority?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So a great question, because the first key here is you've identified your type, you've identified your cyclical behavior, right? That we're trying to improve and if you've read atomic habits, then we always try to fix the action, right? That gets us the reward, that gets us the dopamine and the that emotional connection to food or whatever it is.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right?
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. The obvious thing, like I just need to do differently.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I need to do this differently right now. We need to fix the cue and the identification here of your cue of what it is digging in here and identifying those cues. Excuse me, but knowing your type is powerful because it starts that conversation. So the grazer Tommy Garden. Unpack that a little bit for us.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. Gratuitous grazing is is something that that I noticed in myself now not necessarily like decades back, but as as I was trying to, like, optimize my fasting times, trying to get better at them, trying to understand why some fast were harder than others. What I realized is that I had a pattern of either breaking my fast with something small, something quick, you know, like looking for that, that just consumption that, that ingestion.
[Tommy Welling]
Like I enjoyed the action of getting something kind of snacky could be from the fridge a lot of times it was from the pantry so we joke about like a revolving pantry door, if you will, or like the fridge doors are always open because it can feel like once that nutrition opportunity window is open, it can be hard to close it because it's like, Oh, just just one more bite, one more crunch, one more, one more sip.
[Tommy Welling]
You know, whatever it might be. These kind of encompass a lot of the grazing tendency as well. We weren't really designed for grazing. And it can be really hard to to be consistent with our fasting with a whole lot of grazing and also leads to large spikes and large swings in our insulin and our blood sugar levels, which is which is obviously a problem as well.
[Tommy Welling]
So understanding what that means and what the the flip side of the coin is, whenever I go to set my fasting timer, it can be hard to commit to that next fasting timer. It can make my next fast feel a little more difficult. And those those things add up over time makes it a less enjoyable process, slows my results down and is frustrating along the way as well, right?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, I would say it's not necessarily the big spike in the insulin or the blood sugar, it's the consistent elevated level because there's a consistent source, Right. So it's characterized. Yeah, the taste, the splash, the bite, the lick, the sip of all your favorite things, the leftover food on your kid's plate after you made them breakfast and they decided not to eat it, the donuts that your coworkers brought in the have to have it in your coffee.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
The question we get all the time. What can I. Can I put my coffee while if you're fasting. Nothing. Yeah. Was that sustainable for you? I don't know. That's a conversation you need to have. But technically, yes, it is breaking. In fact, I know Dr. Fong says 50 calories or less. Okay. We're not having that conversation today that's littered throughout these episodes.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But you're it's the leftover sausages, right? Like I mentioned on the kid's plate, the lunch, they didn't eat, right? Mm. Looks like a bean. Still.
[Tommy Welling]
I don't want it to go to waste.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Jelly sandwich on homemade sour dough with natural jam preserves. Like loose like. Wow, that sounds great, right?
[Tommy Welling]
Tasting stuff. Especially after you pay. You paid for it, right? Yeah.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
The extra glass of wine or the second plate or the second serving. Right. Or that I'll just have one Oreo cookie. So all that stuff elevates like the result revolving pantry door like you mentioned. Right. So a couple of things you can do is once you've identified it like a net has, it's like, okay, what are the strategies for keeping consistent?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Well, some actionable things you can do is being gracious with yourself, but knowing what it is that you're doing. So identifying what are the things that I go to, what are the things that I habit I habitually, subconsciously just go to? Like what are those patterns for you? Was the pantry door or breaking the fast in the pantry?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
For me, at one point it was the kids examples, right? The lunch on the way home, the the sausages from breakfast, all those little things. It was also the second or third craft beer on a date night, which alcohol for me is much less these days. Right. So identifying those and then sometimes you need to see it. Like when I don't know if this is good or bad for dog training, I have no idea.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We have three dogs and had the first two trained and then we had kids and all the training went out. The window because we didn't stick with it. But like when you show the puppy where he pooped, right? Like, I don't think that's the way you train them. But you know that old adage, right? Yeah. So we got a kind of stick our nose in it, so to speak.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So you need to know where it's coming from. And sometimes you need to see how much. So I encourage you to almost track what it is when you notice that behavior. And then the second thing is, is really the big one is the changing of the environment, right? So yeah, what is your if then planning. If this happens, then what are you going to do?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right. I know you said like, keep busy. There's some other things that you do, but maybe you don't have to buy that thing that derails you for a while. Well, how do you know what thing it is? We have to identify it first.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. Yeah, that's where it starts. I mean, you can make good decisions when you're actually, you know, choosing those foods and putting them in. You're in your cart, you're at the grocery store and for now.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, we don't need we're not going to preach restriction and omission and different you know, this macro group's terrible for you and this one's but it's all, yeah, it's all relative to the situation and what your goals are and what you're trying to achieve. So for now, don't buy the thing. Yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
And it seems to buy if you used to buy two or three of them, maybe just get one.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right. Right.
[Tommy Welling]
Like, especially like being realistic with yourself that if, if I opened the bag, I will be having more than one from the bag, you know? Right.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Like Boulder Canyon, salt and pepper potato chips.
[Tommy Welling]
Are so good.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I don't buy them. Yeah. Oh, get them for the kids lunches. No you won't. I mean, one bag like that where they go. Yeah, one bags like 800 calories. So it's not the end of the world and it's just potatoes and avocado oil and salt and pepper. Yeah, right. But that's not good to have three or four of those in the house every week, maybe once a month.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Buy them. Right. So that's just a little perspective shift there.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, like not going to the grocery store when I'm hungry, right. I think that's that that seems so obvious but we.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Doing it's not Yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
And we do literally make better choices when we're there, you know, like like feel good Don't, don't go in. There are all, you know, craving and and feeling snacky and things like that. So you know that's, that's where the decision process starts. But then being real with yourself, being okay, reflecting when you have a moment of those gross grazing tendencies, when they kind of come up and going, okay, what actually incited this behavior?
[Tommy Welling]
Did I feel something that I feel stressed or bored? Hungry, angry, lonely, tired, bored, stressed, right. The halt, the B.S. And if I felt one of those things, where did it actually come from? Can I do better with it next time? Knowing that these things are going to come and go right? Like emotions come and go, but they tend to follow a similar pattern.
[Tommy Welling]
So knowing what caused them means I could potentially interrupt them more quickly next time and then change the behavior pattern. So once I once I do that, then I can I can find it easier to actually stick to my fasting time that I committed to beforehand. And if I do find myself grazing during a nutrition opportunity window and I'm having trouble setting setting my actual timer than just setting a short timer to kind of get out of the out of the situation and maybe going doing something a little bit more productive or constructive or something outside of the kitchen or whatever that that environment is.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
Just you remove yourself from that situation, set a short timer and then once the kind of like the emotion passes and the craving passes and I get a little bit more like headed with it if you will, then it can be easy to go. Okay, yeah, I see what I did. I don't necessarily want to do that again or I want to do it differently next time.
[Tommy Welling]
And then if you're if you're ready, then actually set your your real fasting timer so you can commit to it. At that point.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I can clean valuated is what I'm here to.
[Tommy Welling]
Cut it off right there.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I clean boundaries. I like.
[Tommy Welling]
That clean. Now, just a note.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Had a second question part to that. So if you're wondering about fasting types in those some of those those habits or the fasting identity we like to call it, go back and listen to episode 133 that outlines all three fasting types are going to talk a little bit about Weekend Warrior here because it's kind of layered in one of these questions coming up from Zen.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And just second, but Annette's second question was how do I build up to longer fasts? And this question came out of our most recent challenge, the February challenge, and it was the genesis of the new blueprint to fasting for fat loss. So we have our insulin assessment, we have our fast start guide, right? How to put an ad into your day to day fasting life.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Well, we realize there's a lot of in-between right on ramps and off ramps, especially if you're here in Houston, you know, the width of the highway, right? It's like 25 plus lanes wide with frontage roads and U-turn loops and and roundabouts and not roundabouts. Those things are the lane on the left where you can just go under the overpass and go in the opposite direction back on the front to draw down what they're called.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Then you've got on ramps and off ramps and then if you've got to go right to go left and it's like this ramps are left eggs in this the high speed lanes over here. Right. So there's a lot of different variations of, okay, well, what's your what is your starting point? What's your comfort level? Right. So we created and just released this year, I believe was the third week in January, the blueprint to fasting for fat loss.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It's a free resource. You can go grab it, go to the shownotes, click the link in the show notes, download it. It's a 20 page PDF and it talks about all of those little nuances, all of those things that I tried to probably clumsily explain with the analogy of the Houston road system that we have here. But a lot of where you are.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
I think it's more important.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. The importance of, you know, what do you put in your window, How do you build up to your fast. What does a fasting schedule look like? And there's some examples in there of how to build on those fasting times. So the reality is, is though, you've got some work to do before you start there. You can start building your fasting times, but the resource is really designed to give you a big picture and then allow you to personalize that for you.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So if you're looking for that, if you've been fasting, you're looking for more consistency, go grab that free resource. It is in the show notes. Just click the link and we'll zoom it across the interwebs into your email and you will have that and that will help you kind of build up. So just as a big overview though, of how to build up to your longer fasts is really beginning with the end in mind.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Looking at what your weekly schedule looks like, looking at what your fasting habits or your fasting type is, and then learning how to consistently start and stop your fasts, which is to set your timer, to stick to your timer, and then to break your fast intentionally inside of like what we like to call an eating or a nutrition window.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And the only way to build up to longer fast is to literally go through the repetitions. Yeah. Slowly increase, right?
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, yeah. Go. And going through those repetitions like knowing knowing why you're doing it to like, why is this why is this fasting lifestyle important to me. Those, those help in those moments of committing to my fasting timer and in those moments of like gratuitous grazing, like walking across, you know, walking by the pantry door and, and like those little moments, you know, that all add up over time to determine what what our actual results are, how we're feeling and and how much we're enjoying the process of of this as well.
[Tommy Welling]
Like maintaining control over your health is like it's awesome but it's not it's not always just fun in the moment, you know. So having having that perspective on why I'm doing it and why this this is important to me. Like it really matters.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, that was to put a bow on and that's kind of series of questions. There was, well, how do I keep my schedule a graze or how do I increase my fasting times? You know, how do I break the old habits? Right. Well, you need to be anchored to something greater than the number on the scale. If you're just losing weight because your doctor told you to lose weight or because you know it's healthy, right.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And that it's good for you, that's only going to last so long with willpower, right? Or won't power right. The avoidance power. I won't eat that. I'll say no to that. Oh yeah. Right. No, it's the I want power. That's what keeps you going in the moments where it gets tough is or the plateau is or the scale is or the inconsistency is it's anchoring to that greater.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Why? So why do you want to lose the weight? And that's a that's a personalized kind of journey. You've got to kind of pull those layers back. Right. I want to lose weight because and then I want to lose weight because and you just got to keep kind of going through that. And so you get to something that actually excites you to continue on this journey because there is no end to the journey.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
There's only one dire end, right? Beginning with the end in mind. We have a lot to do in between. So there is no once you reach that weight goal, it's more about the process than the result, and that's where we get messed up. So and then I want to encourage you to kind of dive into a few of those things, grab the resource and then really work on that identity of what you're doing when you're grazing and why.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And I think you're going to really get some traction there. So I want to transition to a second question from Suzanne, which is she said, I'm really still struggling with bingeing around the weekends. So we call this the weekend warrior. This is actually one of the most common fasting types of the three that we found and thousands of people going through our challenges and tens of thousands of messages and conversations and emails over the last few years and millions of downloads at this point, right of the podcast.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, there's really three main types and the weekend Warriors, number two. So we'll talk about that in just second. But she said last weekend I did not binge but then binge on Monday and Tuesday, the last two days of the challenge. This is another question that came out of the most recent challenge you did in February was feeling tired and is disappointing that I did not finish the way I wanted.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
My cravings were strong and seemed to find fasting harder. Now here comes that I'm doing f45 five days a week. I'm really enjoying it though, but any advice would be great as I really feel awful after just giving up on the plan. Drinking the wine, eating the kabobs and chips, etc. over the weekend. And she said Thank you.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So an incredibly layered question here and I am so grateful that she submitted it and we really want to highlight this one because this can apply to so many of us, us out on this journey. I just started a peloton challenge with my wife. Okay, Awkward pause. Not my, not my bag, not my thing. Okay. Put me on a concept to rower or an herb and I'll go four days.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I like kettlebells, I like some bodyweight calisthenics type stuff. I don't like doing the heavy weights anymore and I really don't like sitting on a really uncomfortable, hard seat pedaling away. Not my thing. I'm it's becoming my thing. But what I realized is when I started that program is that I was really under mineralized trace mineral izing myself and salting myself when I started this challenge.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, my performance was really weak in the FTP test. If you're familiar with Peloton, I had the same output as my wife, yet I'm about £60 heavier and have about, I don't know, 50 to £70 of muscle, more muscle on my frame. And she does tree trunk type legs and I should have a much higher output. But my current cardiovasc ular health does not does not even compare to my wife's level of zero visceral, fat, incredible anabolic flexibility and just really, really healthy when it comes to cardiovascular and VO2 max.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right? So we're not in the same category. My lungs have always been my weak point. I tell you all that because I have had to alter my hydration and my plan, especially when I was behind due to traveling and I had to do back to back rides to get caught up because she is pulling a little bit of competition out of me.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I'm not very competitive when it comes to this stuff. She is super hyper competitive. Yeah. So good yin and yang, good opposites. But so I was getting behind due to travel and I was like, No, I'm not getting behind. I'm going to do this. And I did two workouts and what I found was I was a lot hungrier after that second workout because I got into an anaerobic state where my body needed glycogen.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It needed glucose for energy because of the duration of the ride. So I'm telling you all this to frame out. Her question is that sometimes the exercise can be detrimental to the fasting for a couple of reasons. One, it can increase your hunger and cravings, which she's noticed when she started doing 45 five days a week. I've never done a 45, but I know they have cardio workouts, they have strength workouts, they have hybrid workouts.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It's it's five days a week, right? And it's longer duration. Getting into that anaerobic state. So if you're not fat adapted and you're not hydrating and using trace minerals. So on the days that I ride, I actually double my salt intake through Redmond sea salt through relight, which is an electrolyte powder that I take post-workout and then my not my water intake, but my trace mineral intake on those days and my performance has been that much better because I'm not flipping the switch.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I'm, I'm able to to sustain ketosis and to be fat adapted during those longer workouts now. But the first couple of weeks I was realizing that I was doing it all wrong and it wasn't serving my weight. My, my visceral fat loss goal. Yeah, so this isn't about me, but that's the that this is the like the the framing and the thought shift that takes place.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Because when Suzanne asked this question, her workouts now require a different type of fasting and eating schedule. If this is her sustainable plan. Sure. And it may not be, but she needs to try some of the things. We'll give you some of those examples here. Men.
[Tommy Welling]
And that can also be tough because depending on what your meal timing is with your exercise timing, then you can have the issue of Now I'm going in, it's getting close to breaking my fast. Maybe it's for lunch or for dinner. I had an early morning workout and I could still be feeling that effect of like that crazy ravenous hunger, which is which can make make me overconsume in the moment, you know, because I'm kind of like chasing that feeling of man, like my, my hunger hormones are just out of control.
[Tommy Welling]
I burned through, you know, 200, 300 calories. This morning. You know, my blood sugar went white like it was depleted.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, Yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
And, I mean, your body's telling you we need to refuel, but at the same time, if you're looking to tap into longer term fat stores because you're on a fat loss phase in your journey, that can be counterproductive at times. And so, so understanding that and maybe, you know, the fact that we have five days a week here of this pretty, you know, this intense working out.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Longer duration, more intense workouts.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe five days is a bit much, too. You know, that's kind of like it's also kind of like, yeah, it's kind of factoring in on on that weekend warrior thing, too. What if this is like Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden like Friday hits and I'm like, Oh, okay, I've been I've been on desserts.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, I've been on all week. I've been white knuckling it right? And then all of a sudden, like, you know, Friday night comes around and and it can be like, okay, that that's a switch flips, right? Yeah.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So two things here. One is the weekend Warrior fasting type again, Episode 133 So this is where you increase your calories more satiating a palatable type foods more opportunity for intake if there's alcohol involved. Right? So the Friday happy hour turns into the Friday night ordering food which turns into the Friday night drinks which turns into the increased cravings on Saturday, which then turns into more food decisions and more opportunity.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Sure. And then you end up looking back and weighing in on Monday, going, what the heck, here I am again. Why did I do this? This? Why am I stuck in this pattern? Right? So, yeah, the weekend warriors very common, especially since the society is Monday through Friday, right? Sure. Yeah. For most frontline workers are different. Obviously nurses, firemen, doctors, etc. But it's very schools Monday through Friday.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right. So three things you can specifically do for the weekend Warriors front load the week with your cleaner longer fasts on days that you have more opportunities special occasions football games Super Bowl that just past Valentine's Day don't break your fast in the moment at the event break your fast ahead of time. And you just did this recently with the steakhouse example Tommy.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then before you make the decision do the 54321 exercise and we talk more about this in that episode. But count down from 5 to 1 wait for 10 minutes before you order the next drink or have the next bite or get the bag of chips or.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Insert that weekend warrior trigger knee. I deserve this, right, because it's not serving your long term goal. And I know that wasn't the main component here. So I want to go back in just a second to highlight one more thing, because when you said white knuckling, it triggered a thought, but maybe next week, try the f45 for three days a week or yeah, tailor your fasting schedule to more of an ADF type schedule.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Mm hmm. Right. Where you're actually able to have a open like an eight hour nutrition window one day, you know, consume add the beat them until satiety right healthy food choices and then on your fasting day you still have the opportunity to have that small meal. Right. Which is called modified alternate day fasting. So there's a couple of different ways to try this out.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Getting more fat adapted. I would say back the workouts down, be more strategic with your meals, increase your hydration, your minerals, your trace minerals, your salt, etc. and you should notice that those cravings should decrease. But that weekend warrior tendency, like you pointed out, is also kind of layered in this question as well.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. And if you if you if you felt like you did that that modified alternate day and then you still had your your workout on on one of those like 500 calorie days, then you could you could still time it to where I would personally have the this small meal probably an hour or two before the workout if I could so that I didn't have to actually like break a fast with that ravenous hunger but with that too.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah but to your your example what I what I was pointing out when we were talking beforehand about the steakhouse, what what helped me was like grabbing a few almonds and some crunchy raw vegetables do kind of like sit. So I wasn't walking into a restaurant with that ravenous hunger. And so whether I'm just breaking a fast like normally or if it's after an intense workout or something like that, then either way it works to kind of like just calm down the hunger signals, calm down.
[Tommy Welling]
Some of the cravings, and then I can make reasonable, unemotional. I'm like unfeeling decisions, you know, whenever I actually sit down at the table. But what were you thinking about for the white knuckling now?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, one more thing on the workout, though. So we have it. We have an episode where we talk about fasted workouts versus fad workouts, and the 24 hour benefit is the same amount of fat loss, right? So the point is here is figuring out what and how it works for you. So we are going to do another updated episode recently in the in the near future about the cortisol and the B access and growth hormone effects of different types of workouts and what you should what we recommend and what's worked well for us and some of our folks that work with us in terms of being during a fat loss phase versus a maintenance phase.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And that's one of the questions about maintenance here, about fasting, skeletal remains. Yeah, we'll get to. So, yeah, I just want to clear that up. So go back. We have an episode on fast versus Fed takeaway is figure out what works for you, what do you enjoy? Because that's the sustainability piece. Whatever you enjoy more is what you're going to continue to do and she seems to enjoy it.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But we need to tweak a couple of things. We do change your fasting, schedule, up your salt mineral intake and then plan those meals a little bit more accordingly. The white knuckling piece time, he reminds me also is that females during childbearing years and going into Perry and pre menopause really making sure that we are listening to those hunger cues especially during day 21 through 28.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And for some women day 23 through 28, depending on when ovulation takes place and depending on the types of cravings because one just your own spikes. All right. We want to be making sure that progesterone has enough substrates, which are carbohydrates, not sugar laden, processed laden, refined processed foods, but natural starchy vegetables, natural forms of carbohydrates. Right. Less refined, less processed.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Those actually help build and increase those healthy progesterone levels, which results in healthy cycles. So when you're white knuckling it, this is something we hear from a lot of the women inside of the coaching group is man is just man. That week leading up to my psychologist who it is hard, right? Right. Because that's not the time to be doing extended fasts.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
That's not the time to be severely calorically restricting. That's not the time to be doing that. That's the week where you open up your window. You get more satiating nutritionally supporting foods and you help build that progesterone level. So that might be part of this as well, because if you are if you are burning the the high HIIT anaerobic type workouts and it's day 2128 of your cycle, you are going to be pushing a giant boulder up a hill and you are absolutely going to give in on either Monday or Tuesday or Thursday or Friday.
[Tommy Welling]
Or.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Wednesday, Thursday, or maybe not Monday this week because of when the cycle falls. But maybe it's maybe it's day 24 through 28 this time. So we want to create those consistent patterns. So the white knuckling thing made me think, oh, okay. Also not the time to be pushing those fasting windows and pushing those workouts.
[Tommy Welling]
So going, going against your physiology means. Yeah, some of the.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Unsustainable.
[Tommy Welling]
Is is so much worse too. Right.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then that weekend warrior just gets conflated even more.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. Magnified. Right.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You made it through the few days, but those weren't the days to be really pushing it. So Suzanne, absolutely appreciate that question Had a question come in about from Maria, about could you make some suggestions to fasting schedules to those of us who are at or very close to our goal weight, what would that look like? So this speaks to folks that have gotten results with fasting and now they're in that adaptation or that lifestyle adaptation phase, that cultivation of it, that sustainability piece, Right?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, and it's a great question. So this is very personal to your lifestyle and how you live, right? Yeah. And the analogy I like to use is you just went to a stakeout, Brazilian steakhouse, right? For a celebration for a birthday. I did. If you were a vegan and or a vegetarian and the company Christmas party that year is at a steakhouse, are you going to go in and just start eating meat?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. No, you're probably going to talk to your boss or your coworker and say, Hey, do they have other things for me on the menu? Yeah, right. You're not going to give up your core values and beliefs and your lifestyle in that moment because of the situation. Right? So with this, maintenance has to be a beginning with the end in mind in a trial and error.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So we'll just share a couple of maintenance type schedules for folks that have lost the weight or that are very close to their maintenance goal and what that looks like for sustainability.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah, and the the example here that I wanted to start with was just the fact that a lot of times people will come to fasting, you know, using a68 oftentimes using a 16 hour fast with an eight hour eating window. And so that oftentimes kind of becomes the the gold standard or the first introduction to fasting for a lot of us.
[Tommy Welling]
And then we kind of think about it as far as fat loss goes, or we may not necessarily think about it as far as maintaining the results. And it it can be a way to maintain results for for some people. But at the same time, like for me personally, it's too much it's too much of an open nutrition opportunity.
[Tommy Welling]
Now, like we talked about earlier, I identify with gratuitous grazing. And so that makes for an even even rougher time trying to maintain results with a very wide open nutrition opportunity window. So for me personally, I like a shorter window. So a place to start would just be to like, especially if you you did Nomad, let's say for, for weight loss results and now you want to maintain those results.
[Tommy Welling]
Well don't open it up too quickly. Maybe start off with with a two or a three hour, maybe a four hour nutrition opportunity. But that's plenty of time for me personally to feel good and to maintain, you know, my results.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So for clarity, there is another question that came in that was related to this is from Vicky are longer fast, longer than 24 hour meds necessary for fat loss. Why doesn't Nomad work for fat loss after a certain point? So it's good it's it relates exactly to this or what is maintenance look like. Yeah for some folks it's one meal a day.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
For other folks it's six eight. What is the scale telling you? How do you feel? What's your energy? What's your libido? How's your blood work? What's your body composition? Are you working on body composition? What phase of life are you in? Right. So it really is that personalization piece and om ad can be a powerful fat loss tool, but it can also be a good maintenance tool for some as well.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So I don't want to answer that second question just yet. But back to the maintenance piece is for fat loss versus maintenance. Oh, that can be powerful. Now if we're talking strict definitions of, Oh, Matt, it's one meal. Yeah, but some people look at OMAP and go, Oh, well, I have a two, like you said, a two or three hour window.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So if you're going from a strict one meal, 30 minutes intentional eating, you're you eat to your satiated 40 to 60% of your calories, you're hydrated. Well, you're in a fat loss phase. And then all of a sudden you're like, okay, I reach my goal weight back to three meals and snacks a day. Right now, even with consistent fasting and ramping out of it, you're still going to see a 30 to 40% regain because of the glycogen and the the water and the different variations in the scale, because we know the scale is in telling us weight loss day to day, fat loss day to day.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
It's telling us weight loss, which is hydration, sleep, bowel movements, stress, all that kind of stuff tied into what that scale is going to show you food decisions and previous windows. So you would want to like you said, Tommy, open up your window a few hours, right? Slowly. Do that for a week or two. How do you feel?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
How's your energy? What's the scale telling you, etc., etc. And you have to play around with it, right? So for some folks, they want more of a bigger window, like a 16 eight or an 18 six fasting schedule on the weekends, and they want to be more strict during the week because it's easier. It simplifies their life, they travel, kids business, whatever, but then on the weekends they want more opportunity to experience those, to go to the the zoo and to have the brunch after church and to, you know, have the date night or whatever.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
And then yeah, other folks want the opposite where the weekend flubs them up Weekend warrior so they do more consistent like a two mile a day 4 to 6 hour window during the week. But then they do their longer extended fasts on the weekends. I love fasting 24 plus hours from dinner Saturday night until Monday. Yeah, because I know Monday's a big busy day.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
I like clarity and a good night's sleep on Sunday night, so I will fast up most Sundays because I want to start my week with that increase gdnf that increase euphoria, that increased energy to knock all of the stuff off the checklist and frontload the week. So it's really customizable. But the reality is once you hit your goal, just don't open your window and go back to those old habits because that's that night in mentality.
[Tommy Welling]
Yeah. So I think part of that, the nuance in the perspective is that if I, if I look at fasting as my diet and then I look at my my goal weight as an endpoint, then I'm very likely to to think about it that once I hit my goal and then I step on the scale and I see the number that, okay, now can go back to the old stuff, I no longer need these tools and, and what I use to actually get me here.
[Tommy Welling]
And then I go back to those old habits, 2 to 3 meals a day, plus snacks. And the trouble is, it's not going to work out very well. It's very easy to see the scale tick back up then when we kind of like open that up because insulin resistance insulin sensitivity is a is a tricky thing. But once once the body figures out how to store more fat, and once you have a tougher time with with some of the insulin sensitivity, it doesn't all just necessarily just just go back to like how my body reacted 20 years ago.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, right, right. Yeah. You're 20, 30, 40, £50 down. You're a completely different metabolically a completely different person. Yeah. And there's an adaptation phase that needs to take place, both physically and the mental emotional side. Yeah. You're going to get lot more compliments. People are going to notice, they're going to ask your questions. You're going to break the first year rules of fasting.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You're going to talk about fasting. I can't do that. Why are you starving yourself? Well, you just complimented me on losing £40. I look great. You want what I have or what? What's going on here? Right.
[Tommy Welling]
So where's the disconnect?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, right. There's that adaptation phase that needs to complete.
[Tommy Welling]
Let me clarify one thing. You mentioned 30 to 40% regain. And I just wanted to clarify one thing, which would be like if you just ended a fast and you saw let's say you saw a big change in the scale and so a lot of that was was water way to glycogen leaving and maybe you burned through some fat as well.
[Tommy Welling]
But if you saw like a three, four or five £6 movement on the scale, it is, it's it's typical to see, you know, 30 to 40% of that come back as you start to get back into like a more regular eating pattern after that. So I think that that helps to kind of clarify that point with.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, love it. And the last question, just unpack a little bit more in a minute or two from the question from Vicky are longer than 23, are all ads necessary for fat loss? The answer for most people is no. Unless your caloric intake has been chronically low 800 to 1000 calories for years, chronic dieters, you know, big imbalances with food relationships, right?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Batting good foods, bingeing not we're not talking clinically diagnosed type eating disorder, bingeing, but just like opening up your window over consuming, consuming the full bag of chips. Right. The guilt, the shame on.
[Tommy Welling]
Mindless.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah, mindless stuff. And then especially in today's world and.
[Tommy Welling]
Then feel guilty about it later.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right. Right. So in most cases, you can get some really great results with 23 hour on ads, but you need to be very intentional about what you're putting in your nutrition window. You need to be making sure you're getting enough quality food, prioritizing protein, healthy fats, giving yourself enough time to get satiated. Right. So it just it creates more experience and more know how than if you vary your fasting times, right, and you start to have different meals and not have the fear of missing out or long term restriction or Oh, I can't eat that right, So my God can be great.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But at any point in any diet you've ever done, when you've tried to lose weight, you will hit the dreaded plateau. Hmm. So it's not oh, mad that's causing you to hit the plateau. It's your habits, behaviors and weight loss. Your metabolic change that's causing you to hit the plateau. Yeah. Something's changed in your lexicon, in your day to day life or your metabolic profile or your.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
You lose weight, your metabolic rate comes down because you're a smaller individual. Yeah. Fasting can boost that metabolic rate. What are you eating? How long have you been trying what your stress levels look like? What's your sleep look like? What your hormone levels look like, what your blood work look like? What's your relationship with your boss or husband or kids look like?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Right. There's so much more. So you're going to hit a certain point where your weight stalls, but that doesn't mean what you've been doing isn't working. Or is it going to continue to work? There's just so many factors. So if we're going to try to black and white our way there, that's dieting, That's a dieting mentality and that's not what we want.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
So I'm going to encourage if that relates to anyone, Vicky, to to really question why these questions matter to you? Hmm? Yeah. What are you what are you pushing back on? And what? Just like my my three and a half year old. But why? But why? But why? Why, why, why, why? But why does it work for one and not the other?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
But why? So I know it's kind of a little abstract answer, but no matter how you choose to lose weight, fasting or not, you're going to hit that point where the weight stalls for a various amount of reasons. And what is your plan when that happens and why is that holding you back from taking necessary actions today to get in, tap into those those long term results with that long term plan?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah.
[Tommy Welling]
You know, also, if you've been doing that for a long time, when was the last time you did two meals on a day? You know, just open it up a little bit.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Yeah. Because Which is related to the Maria question, right.
[Tommy Welling]
Absolutely. Because, because if you've if you've ever done long term caloric restriction, you've ever, like, kept restricting like, okay, well, I guess I'll just reduce it by another 100 calories or another 200 calories because that's really the only lever that you have to pull at that point. And then maybe the scale moves a little bit more before it just stops again.
[Tommy Welling]
But then at that point, you're just not really sure what to do. Well, in the same vein, if I'm, you know, consistently doing Oh man, and I just keep shrinking that or shrinking what's on my plate at that point. And that that's kind of the opposite problem from what can happen during dinner amount, which is that the the window can kind of get later and later and stay open for longer and longer.
[Tommy Welling]
But if you just keep restricting that moment down, then that that's not going to be helpful. Your body's going to be throwing up red flags like, hey, food scarce, you know, and if if I'm not actually able to tap into my fat stores because insulin hasn't been coming down for whatever reason, maybe it's what I have on my plate or I'm eating really super late.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Or.
[Tommy Welling]
I'm very sedentary. At the same time. All of these things can him throw up red flag signals to the body. So being willing to throw in an occasional two meals a day, even though I really want the weight to come off, kind of feel counterintuitive, I can feel a little bit outside of my comfort zone, but it can be exactly what I need from time to time, right, to to keep things going.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
That's really good perspective. Really, really good perspective. So as we wrap up today and that's question, right, the grazing, the building up to longer fasts the weekend warrior increasing your workouts. The white knuckling right though. Well what does maintenance truly look like and does all work? Doesn't it work? Why does it work for me? What doesn't work for me?
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We want to encourage you that going through these repetitions is all part of that process. So I appreciate you guys listening. Appreciate you being in on this journey with us. If you're looking for more guidance, go grab the new blueprint to fasting for fat loss. It's in the show notes. You can click the link and if you want more support, you want to join the conversation.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
We also have a community on Facebook, the Fasting for life community. You can come all things fasting are required, meaning you don't have to worry about the first two rules of fasting, which are don't talk about fasting and don't talk about fasting. You're in a group with like minded individuals. It's a private group. Answer the questions. Let us know how we can help.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Come join the conversation, get your questions answered, grab the blueprint and know that fasting can be the solution for you. TIME So as we wrap up today, appreciate the conversation. Appreciate you all for submitting questions. Appreciate you all for listening. Grateful that you've chosen to make us part of your fasting and lifestyle journey. Thank you and we'll talk to you next week.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
Thanks.
[Tommy Welling]
I'm cool. Thank you to so you've heard today's episode and you may be wondering where do I start? Head on over to the fasting for life icon and sign up for our newsletter where you'll receive fasting tips and strategies to maximize results and fit fasting into your day to day life.
[Dr. Scott Watier]
While you're there, download your free Fast Start Guide to get started today. Don't forget to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to leave us a five star review and we'll be back next week with another episode of Fasting for Life and.